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Thread: Icewind Dale Has Arrived at GOG.com

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    Staff Healer RPGamer Staff TwinBahamut's Avatar
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    Icewind Dale Has Arrived at GOG.com

    Even after a decade, the frozen north still promises wealth and adventure. Still, you may want dust off those old rulebooks and study up on your THAC0 if you want to survive this one.

    [Link]

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    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    I tried Icewind Dale back in the day, but the combat system was never my favourite part of the Baldur's Gate games, so I got bored pretty quickly.

    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance

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    I loved this game back in the day. Not sure if I would want to revisit it though at this point. Perhaps if they actually graphically updated the game I would check it out again.

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    Member Jitawa's Avatar
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    As a series, it was always basically Baldur's Gate without all the cool party interaction and personality. As Ocelot suggests, I didn't think the combat system was enough to stand on its own.

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    Member TheAnimeMan's Avatar
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    Own the game and Xpack and not fond of the combat system that they switched to for the later D&D games
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    Devious Dungeon Master RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    I love these games.... from the Gold Box games right up through NWN2. But, I totally recognize their weaknesses (and the fact that I'm looking at them with rose colored glasses). I really do enjoy RPGs with thoughtful battle systems which force you to plan your party and battles carefully. However, unless you really know your D&D rulesets, and/or are willing to invest time to learning more about them, you'll be at a strong disadvantage in this game. Also, the rules are a unnecessarily clunky / complex in some areas, though they do streamline some of that for the computer games.

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    Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff Fowl Sorcerous's Avatar
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    Yeah 2nd ed whole game mechanics was something a clusterf*** of counter-intuitive weirdness, but Icewind Dale 2 was the first videogame to use 3rd ed's simple easy to understand combat mechanics and horrendeously broken divine caster classes. so there's that as a consolation. Also, I'm fairly certain they're the only D&D games to let you jump.

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    Devious Dungeon Master RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    Yeah...I remember how much different IWD2 was even though it LOOKS the same. The updated rules set was very helpful. Now, when are we going to get a game with the even easier 4th Ed rules?

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    Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff Fowl Sorcerous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcservant View Post
    Yeah...I remember how much different IWD2 was even though it LOOKS the same. The updated rules set was very helpful. Now, when are we going to get a game with the even easier 4th Ed rules?
    the upcoming neverwinter is using the 4th ed rule set. (cue the fanboys complaining that 4 e's combat is too much like a videogame)

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    Devious Dungeon Master RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    Isn't that an MMO? I don't have time for MMO's, unfortunately.

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    They changed it to an mmo? I was under the impression it was offline.

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    Ysy St. Administrator Macstorm's Avatar
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    No, it's online... but is NOT an MMO. Think non-massive multiplayer campaigns.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
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    Devious Dungeon Master RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    Ah...sounds like the Original NWN on AOL back in the day. Going back to their roots, eh? That just might be interesting to me after all!

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    I loved IWD. It's Baldur's Gate focused almost completely on dungeon-crawling, with a linear (though very atmospheric) story. You didn't have much of a choice in how the story played out, and there was no party interaction, but on the plus side, you got to create your entire party from the ground up. The dungeons were varied and incredibly well-designed, beating out pretty much all of the BG series dungeon crawling sections (even BG2's Underdark).

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio View Post
    They changed it to an mmo? I was under the impression it was offline.
    It was never completely offline. There's a heavy online component, but reports seem to differ on whether or not it's an MMO (though I think it's not). Can't say I'm interested in the least, though, due to the developer. I was never a big fan of the NWN franchise, though I did enjoy NWN2.

  15. #15

    rules not too difficult

    I don't really understand why everyone thinks that the D&D 2nd ed ruleset is so hard to understand. I mean, "study up on THAC0?" It explains itself... To hit armor class of 0. THAC0 is the number that your roll and your bonuses need to add up to hit someone with an armor class of 0. Not too difficult as long as you just think about it for a second.

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    Member Minneyar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weglarz View Post
    I don't really understand why everyone thinks that the D&D 2nd ed ruleset is so hard to understand.
    The confusing part is that, due to how THAC0 works, it means that lower armor classes are better. A guy who is totally unarmored has an AC of 10, and a guy in a suit of full plate with a tower shield is a 0. How many other games are there where your armor is represented numerically and having a lower number is better?

    There are a lot of other weird lower/higher inconsistencies in 2nd ed, too. Saving throws, for example. Rolling high on attack and damage rolls is good, but when rolling saves you want to roll under a set number. How does that make sense? Not to mention that it's weird that the number you roll against is determined by your class and level, meaning a 1st-level fighter has just as good a chance to save against a 1st-level magic user's spell as a 10th-level magic user's spell, barring any situational modifiers. On the other hand, it may be more or less difficult depending on whether the spell is question is being cast by a spellcaster or that spellcaster is using a wand...

    I've always thought that one of the best things 3rd edition did was make it so that higher numbers for both your statistics and how you roll are always better.

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    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    My problem with the BG/IWD combat system wasn't the 2nd Ed rules, with which I'm quite familiar. It was the turn-based/real-time combo and the way that enemy casters were programmed to throw up every defensive spell in the book in rapid succession at the beginning of every fight. I found the system overall to be clunky and difficult to control, while the cheating chain-casting spellcasters led to abuse of the save/load system in order to memorize the necessary counter-spells before any difficult fight. I would really have been happier with Gold Box-style combat.

    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance

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    Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff Fowl Sorcerous's Avatar
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    THAC0 (and the rest of the 2nd ed ruleset) was not so bad, otherwise AD&D would not have been the most successful rpg for decades, it just that we 3rd ed came out and it was consistent and intuitive across the board did anyone spend a lot of time complaining about how terrible the system was. That said, 2nd ed's unarmed combat and grappling rules were horrendously over-complicated.

  19. #19
    Devious Dungeon Master RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    And I never indicated it was bad, par se. It was needlessly complicated in some areas. There were areas, such as the ways spells were memorized FF1 style, that could have been simplified with a MP system or something similar...without really changing the core experience. 3rd ed addresses SOME of this (Such as the sorcerer class being a less complicated version of the mage), but seem to make add other things more complicated... such as pretige classes (It would take me a while figuring out what skills I needed to pick up in what order to unlock some of those guys), and the new defense / counter defense spell casting Becky points out above. (Remember, I'm addressing this from the computer gaming angle).

  20. #20
    Member Minneyar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcservant View Post
    There were areas, such as the ways spells were memorized FF1 style, that could have been simplified with a MP system or something similar...without really changing the core experience.
    The D&D spellcasting system is actually based on Jack Vance's Dying Earth novels, and to be honest, I think it's part of D&D's charm. At least, in 3E and earlier. It helps to make the way magic users work significantly different from other game systems, and it makes resource management and day-to-day strategy much more important. If you want a class that uses an MP-like resource, there's the psion. (of course, I'm looking at this all from a pen & paper gaming perspective, in which counterspelling is almost completely worthless until you're over level 20 and can pick up the Epic Counterspell feat)

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