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Thread: RPGCast - Episode 193: "Ride Zee 1080p Shoopuf?"

  1. #1
    Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflict Administrator sabin1001's Avatar
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    RPGCast - Episode 193: "Ride Zee 1080p Shoopuf?"

    RPGCast - Episode 193: "Ride Zee 1080p Shoopuf?"

    We settle the question of which Final Fantasy deserves an HD remake the most. Alex gives us his impressions of the highly anticipated Xenoblade: Chronicles. Then Minecraft punishes Roy for daring to support its development.

    You can find the links to all our stories on delicious: http://delicious.com/rpgamer/193

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    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    LOL, you couldn't resist the cute pressure of noodle, could you?

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    Overlord Sir Erdrick's Avatar
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    Fandom to Fandom combat!

    I think Noodle names a lot of the shows actually...

    Anyways onto the meat and potatoes! The grand and great battle between Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X!

    As of my current poke around on amazon.com, one can obtain a brand new copy of Final Fantasy X from Amazon for $22.79 USD, there are 148 used copies starting at $3.27, 16 collectible starting at $17.99 and 28 new starting at $18.78. For Final Fantasy VII, there are 11 new copies starting at $169.95, 161 used copies starting at $35.00 and 37 collectible copies starting at $23.00 (note that the one for $23.00 has a disc 1 that is non functioning, the one after that is $41.95).

    Final Fantasy VII has sold over 10 million copies worldwide with almost 6 million of those sales coming from North America (Source: http://web.archive.org/web/200808010.../titles/ccff7/). Final Fantasy X has sold around 6.6 million copies (Source: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/fina...s_6086686.html). Final Fantasy VII sold more than 100,000 copies in the first two weeks it was available for purchase on the PSN (Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=24162).

    Final Fantasy VII is a game that, in my opinion, needs to have work done to it. The translation is near unreadable in some sections ('This guy are sick' et al.), the field models are laughable (Cloud looks a bit like Popeye after eating his spinach) and navigating the dungeons and towns, at least in my opinion, is a little bit clunky at times. On the other hand X still looks respectable in the graphics department and I didn't notice that many localization issues, one boy who wanted to be a blitzball aside. However, that being said, the lip sync left much to be desired and I didn't care much for the voice acting in the game.

    From a personal standpoint, I have not enjoyed the Final Fantasy games since Final Fantasy VII. Now this could just be the nostalgia filter at work, but, I have found the story lines since VII to be dull, trite and sometimes insulting to your intelligence (The orphanage reveal from Final Fantasy VIII really sticks out in my mind). I'm not much of a fan of the way the art direction has moved in the series (Final Fantasy X's characters had 'interesting' design choices). The one thing that bugs me most (and this is a complaint I have about all games and not just Final Fantasy) is the move towards more cinematic experiences. I just want to play a game not watch cutscenes!

    That being said, I don't hate the fact that Final Fantasy X is getting a remake, I just hate the fact that it isn't the one that everyone has been clamoring for! It smacks of being out of touch with their fanbase, which is not a problem with just Square-Enix (Nintendo (see Operation Rainfall) and Capcom (Mega Man Legend 3) are also guilty of this). Fans have been clamoring for a remake of Final Fantasy VII since the PS2 era.
    Last edited by Sir Erdrick; 09-17-2011 at 03:56 PM.

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    The Gratitude Pokemon Shaymin's Avatar
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    The two dominant reasons FFX is getting remastered right now:
    1) The 10th anniversary (I believe this was glossed over, and isn't XHD coming this year?)
    2) The fan demand will probably be stoked if they plug this survey that calls FFX the greatest game of all time* (ironically, FFVII is #2 on that list).

    * as voted by Famitsu readers

    The problem is that damn 2005 tech demo which really started this whole remake-mania (see comparison video here), I dare say, looks better than XIII does in motion and every other target video Sony trotted out that year hasn't been matched by the games that ended up releasing (Killzone 2, Motorstorm). I have to ask if the demand is for an FFVII remake, or a remake that looks *that* good.

    Of course, there's the long-standing rumour that the FFVII remake is done and is being trotted out as a last-ditch effort in case SE ever faces down bankruptcy...

    Edit: I'm calling the 3DSXL for March '13, because they always try to get 2 Christmases out of the handheld. A Phat->Lite timeline would be May of next year.
    Last edited by Shaymin; 09-17-2011 at 04:44 PM.
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    Member zockroach's Avatar
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    This is a very intense episode!
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    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    A point I didn't make on the podcast, and I don't know how I forgot to, is that even if FFVII sold better -- FFX's numbers are NOTHING to sneeze at. As far as I can tell, the 6 million does not include the International version sales, while the 10 million number for FFVII includes PSN sales. In regards to the cost of a physical copy, that's due to a mix of age and collection value of the non-GH version. Non-GH copies of FFX are worth more than GH copies as well, fwiw. It's also a testament to the value of unopened (not just new) games -- I recently sold a game on ebay for just shy of 100$ because it was sealed. Opened copy worth? Under 20.

    Shaymin: It's an interesting reflection of the fandom in general when a tech demo gets people this riled for this long. How do people forget there was a tech demo for FFVI on the N64?

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    Member zockroach's Avatar
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    Yes, it is okay for Sqeenuts to do a X remake instead of a VII. As Quin said, X would be easier to give 'dress up' into HD. VII would take a ground up rebuild. The original code could not be used as a base (maybe if it got ported to 3DS?) because the polygon count is too low and that would be an issue that would have to be addressed in order to pull the game out of one of the ugliest era's in existence. I'm stoked on the X remake. Can't wait to play that ish on my HD tv.

    I'm really digging all of the yelling going on!
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    Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff noodle's Avatar
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    i tried getting the title to "ride zee 1080p tidus" but sabin drew the line there.

  9. #9
    これはメタです RPGamer Staff Quin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paws View Post
    How do people forget there was a tech demo for FFVI on the N64?
    Wait, WHAT?

    *WIKI*

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Final Fantasy VI: The Interactive CG Game (also known as the Final Fantasy SGI demo, or Final Fantasy x (not related to the actual 10th game in the Final Fantasy series, Final Fantasy X) was a short demonstration produced by Square using characters and settings from Final Fantasy VI. Produced using new Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) Onyx workstations acquired by Square, the demo was Square's first foray into 3D graphics, and many assumed that it was a precursor to a new Final Fantasy title for the Nintendo 64 video game console, which also used SGI hardware.[15] Square, however, had not yet committed to Nintendo's console at the time of the demo's production, and much of the technology demonstrated in the demo was later put to use in the rendering of full motion video sequences for Final Fantasy VII and subsequent games for the PlayStation. The demo itself featured Terra Branford, Locke Cole, and Shadow in a series of battles. The game was controlled largely through mouse gestures: for example, moving the cursor in the shape of a star would summon a dragon to attack.[15]
    ...

    What is this I don't even
    Last edited by Quin; 09-17-2011 at 07:22 PM.

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    New Member New Registered User moenki's Avatar
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    Hmm... I'd like to see remakes of lots old Square games... FFVI being the top: something like IV, maybe even on 3DS. And personally, I always liked FFVII, and I think I wouldn't like an HD remake of it. Not that it would be a poor business decision, or wouldn't be a great fan service, but unless they change absolutely nothing but the quality of the graphics, I'd be disappointed and feel like they ruined it. I also don't see a point to spending time and money on a X remake, just rerelease the thing as is as a portable download title or something (XII too).

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    Member SiliconNooB's Avatar
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    FFVII doesn't need remaking IMO, it has held up much better than FFX.
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    Member Retrovertigo's Avatar
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    Is there a proper breakdown of sales anywhere for FF7? I seem to recall plenty of stories when it launched, where it was selling like crazy (probably because of the graphics) but that it ended up being one of the most returned games of all time.

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    Member Just Doug's Avatar
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    I was surprised when I saw the title of yesterday's podcast! I helped name a show, yay! XD *hi-fives with Noodle*

    But yeah, I think both sides of the argument had a valid point. FFVII is what there's been a long-expressed demand for... but it's also a daunting undertaking. The precise amount of time and money SE could take to do a FFVII remake aside (i.e. whether it would require a 2 year development cycle or a 5 year development cycle), however expensive it would be, the fan expectations alone would probably be intimidating to Nomura &co. I had forgotten that FFX's tenth (X!) anniversary was a main reason for this FFX upgrade. It makes sense, really, and it is true that it is possibly the easiest SD-era FF to give an HD makeover considering it's at the cusp of the PS2 era (as far as FFs go). I'm no programmer, but it seems sensible to me that a PS2 game being made over for HD would not need its guts rearranged to the degree that a PSX game would. I can't say I know that to be true, but it would make sense if it that is the case. The effort that would be needed to redo the visuals for each game...FFVII would ultimately require the creation of an entire new set of field models from start to finish--probably battle models too...and a bunch of other stuff I'm sure. FFX would require somewhat less work updating its assets, I would think.

    All that said, I'm not as keen on FFX HD as I would be a FFVII remake. I can pop in FFX right now and enjoy it and the graphics wouldn't bother me one bit. FFVII on the other hand I really feel the years and they have not been kind...I climbed Shinra tower just the other night on my PSN copy and Palmer about bisected himself when he threw himself onto the tabletop at the Shinra meeting Cloud &co. eavesdrop on. That was the sort of moment that shows how inadequate FFVII's graphics are in modern times. I can shrug off the graphics most of the time but it does bug me at specific moments like that because it's distracting.

    While it might be unfair/irrational to resent a FFX remake for not being a FFVII remake, I must admit that my first thought when I heard of the FFX remake was about the difficulty of a FFVII remake. I just couldn't help but link the two in my thoughts. If that's the norm... FFX HD put a dash of salt in the wounds of people that feel bitter over their dashed hopes for a FFVII remake. I'm not that rabid a fan myself. Personally, I don't mind either way. FFVII was, despite its shortcomings, a game that reigned in its own era. It had its time, just as FFVI and CT reigned in their era, and so on. That's enough for me, any remakes that have come along have been mere bonus. Additionally (this is my last thought, I promise), to an extent, the amount that I enjoyed FFVII hinged on the times as well as my age (my teenage self ate up angst and mindscrew and fauxlosophy--my college self and beyond...not so much). Even with current gen graphics and a top quality translation it just might not be the same.
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    Member SiliconNooB's Avatar
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    Is there a proper breakdown of sales anywhere for FF7? I seem to recall plenty of stories when it launched, where it was selling like crazy (probably because of the graphics) but that it ended up being one of the most returned games of all time.
    It was probably one of the most returned games of all time simply due to the fact that it was one of the most purchased games of all time - up to that point.

    It also brought in many outsiders to the JRPG genre, a good proportion of which may have been dismayed to find menu-driven combat.

    I have no trouble in believing that there were many returns. Sadly, sales figures appear to be much less nuanced back in '97 - so it's hard to get a clearer picture.
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    Smorgasbord Whoomp's Avatar
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    I got the impression that what Squareenix is doing with FFX is not remaking but as with all the other PS2 to PS3 conversions are just upgrading the resolution of the textures, which are probably already there. If it was such an big undertaking then it would be suicide for companies to include entire trilogies for a budget price as with the Prince of Persia or Sly HD collections. So unless they are rebuilding the entire game the comparison between this and a FFVII remake is not really valid since this is an easy way to cash in on people who otherwise would have bought it used which, naturally, don't render any profit for SE. It's the deluxe variant of simply releasing it as a downloadable on PSN or XBLA, something they already have done with FFVII.

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    New Member New Registered User moenki's Avatar
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    I've just decided that I would buy an FFX remake if they did one thing to it: get rid of Tidus. He ruined it the first time and shouldn't be allowed back. Do it, Square Enix, you know you want to...

  17. #17
    Member SiliconNooB's Avatar
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    @Whoomp: Square Enix themselves called it a remake, but I don't believe them. I imagine that it will probably be a very polished upscale though, and I hope that they can solve at least some of that game's presentational issues, such as VA mistakes, lip synch issues, and the continual LOD changes in the character models.
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    The Best HyphyKezzy's Avatar
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    When I heard the news about FF X the fact that they were gonna pretty it up was really just a nice bonus. For me the real reason I'm happy about it is that it will be playable on the Vita and I hope they do the same for X-2 and XII. I already have I through IX available to take with me anywhere pretty easily which is awesome and to me VII doesn't look too bad on the little psp screen anyway so I prefer them to expand the number of games available to me in a portable format over making those already available better looking. I will admit I might feel differently about it if I owned a PS3 though. HD FF VII on my tv would be pretty cool.
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    Host of The Sectorcast Rosestorm's Avatar
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    I hope they do the same for Dragon Quest VIII
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  20. #20
    RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff 7thCircle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosestorm View Post
    I hope they do the same for Dragon Quest VIII
    But Dragon Quest VIII has no textures to upgrade.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.

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