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Thread: RPGCast - Episode 213: "Grandpa Oak's HeartGolden Oldies"

  1. #1
    Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflict Administrator sabin1001's Avatar
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    RPGCast - Episode 213: "Grandpa Oak's HeartGolden Oldies"

    RPGCast - Episode 213: "Grandpa Oak's HeartGolden Oldies"

    Is Phantasy Star still relevant? Is Diablo III coming out before June? Is there room for another console in your living room? All these things are answered by Professor Oak and his musical review.

    You can find the links to all our stories on delicious: http://delicious.com/rpgamer/213

    RPGCast streams live, sometimes on Friday at 10 PM Eastern / 7 PM Pacific, usually on Saturday at Noon Eastern / 9 AM Pacific.

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  2. #2
    Member Zaku77's Avatar
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    I gotta say, was not expecting the old-person voice for the feedback haha.
    Check out my fledgling youtube channel. It's small now, but if I get more subscribers I will start doing more with it, so stay tuned!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/HellDest...7?feature=mhee

  3. #3
    Angel-Possessed Priestess Administrator Strawberry Eggs's Avatar
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    I'm still not done listening, but I'd thought I'd weigh in on how many Pokemon may be added in Black and White 2. I initially thought it would be zero since these are essentially the third version of this generation. However, it's already unusual that these game are direct sequels instead of an enhanced version. I doubt Nintendo will add a generation's worth of Pokemon (probably brining up the grand total to over 750...), but they may very well add a small number. However the "new Legendaries" are not new at all. They are alternate forms (or "formes," as the Pokemon Company calls them for whatever reason) of Kyurem, the Dragon/Ice Legendary that is the wuji (abscence of yin and yang) to and Zekrom and Reshiram. For reasons we will soon discover, Kyurem can change shape to look like a hybrid of itself and one of the other dragons. Like Giratina's Origin form and Shaymin's sky form, they are not considered new Pokemon.

    Actually, I will wildly speculate, and say that perhaps at least one actual new Pokemon will the the Dragon type Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem supposedly split off from, one based on Taiji, the highest principle from which ying and yang are created. If not, this thing's bound to show up in the sixth generation games. Of course, there's a good chance there really won't be anything new.

    ...Yes I know, I'm a dork.

    I may as well add these in:

    First Game: Red Version (picked it up after watching and liking the anime).
    Favorite Game: Black and White (own White Version)
    Most Pokemon caught: 646 in Black
    Last edited by Strawberry Eggs; 03-11-2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Adding favorites
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  4. #4
    I didn't learn anything! MasterChief's Avatar
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    Regarding NPD, they're trying to get digital sales data, but it's not possible because the digital distribution services won't submit numbers. EA and Valve can brag about digital, but until we get empirical data, it's useless to even talk about it. Not just sales numbers, but trends. There's heavy anecdotal evidence suggesting that people only really buy games when Steam has their myriad sales periods (and it's not just twice a year). Until these services are willing to give hard data, it's mostly hearsay from companies with a vested interest in pushing a platform where they don't have to worry about consumer rights.

    Regarding a Steam console, Mikel is absolutely right. Here's a history lesson: Trip Hawkins came up with an idea in the mid 90s. Instead of a closed platform tied to a first party publisher, he thought it'd be a good idea to have a standardized architecture that other hardware companies could pump out, deflecting the horribly high costs in making game consoles from his startup, 3DO Company. There was a small problem, however: Since the companies that made the system (Panasonic, Goldstar, and Sanyo) didn't get any royalties from game software, they had to sell at a profit. So they sold their systems at $700 to start, and proceeded to get cornholed by the cheaper Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo Entertainment System, leaving the platform dead by the time the PlayStation and Saturn came out. You see, save for Nintendo, who waits for component costs to come down, companies have a tendency to sell at a loss, and make the money back on software royalties.

    So with this in mind, why would Valve release a console, have it be an open platform where people could theoretically not use Steam, and therefore not give Valve royalties? Remember, they'll likely have to release another one to compete with the eventual PS4 and the next MS console. Not only that, but since Valve isn't closing the platform, 3rd parties are free to completely ignore it, especially when dedicated PC fans inevitably rage that games are being nerfed even more for another cheap platform. Therefore, to keep pace, they're going to have to release a box with specs similar to the next generation, whenever they come out. They're not going to eat losses without game royalties to make up for it, so they'd have to charge top-dollar. In short, Valve would basically be foolish to release a piece of hardware in a field where they have no clout (Let's be honest, Valve is a PC company, and their impact on consoles is limited), and pour money into a platform that will be obsolete in a few years, not only by next-gen consoles, but by the further advancement of PC hardware. This of course ignores the huge amount of money that Valve would owe Microsoft to put Windows in these boxes, further increasing the price of this thing as those costs are passed down to consumers. In short, this would very possibly sink Valve. They're better off focusing on getting DOTA 2 ready for eSports and developing Steam further, maybe making a game at some point in the next 10 years.

    I know Chris will not likely read this on the next podcast because it's critical of him and his apparently passionate views, but I hope he stops generalizing from self one day and look at bigger pictures. I won't hold my breath, however.
    Last edited by MasterChief; 03-10-2012 at 11:56 PM.

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  5. #5
    The Gratitude Pokemon Shaymin's Avatar
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    First Pokemon game: Red
    Best Pokemon games: Black and White
    (Most overrated: (Heart) Gold and (Soul) Silver)
    Pokedex: 649 in hacks, 646 in legit games

    You shouldn't get confused on the whole "Version 2" thing: It's not a new generation, more of a GotY edition and it has to maintain a large portion of compatibility with Black and White. As Strawberry Eggs mentioned, the most we can expect is a few new forms. They might add in one of the 647-649 block, so Mr. Yearworth was probably on the mark with the 1 prediction, but that's it.

    Also, they tried a Trading Figure Game for Pokemon once. It, uh, bombed. Since the Skylanders bubble has about six months left on it before the parents of the world throw up their hands, we're not going to see a Pokemon game require figures. (It might be optional, but you'll be able to catch them ingame somehow or bring them forward from a Black/White game).
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
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  6. #6
    Have towel will travel Member shoptroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterChief View Post
    So with this in mind, why would Valve release a console, have it be an open platform where people could theoretically not use Steam, and therefore not give Valve royalties? Remember, they'll likely have to release another one to compete with the eventual PS4 and the next MS console. Not only that, but since Valve isn't closing the platform, 3rd parties are free to completely ignore it, especially when dedicated PC fans inevitably rage that games are being nerfed even more for another cheap platform. Therefore, to keep pace, they're going to have to release a box with specs similar to the next generation, whenever they come out. They're not going to eat losses without game royalties to make up for it, so they'd have to charge top-dollar. In short, Valve would basically be foolish to release a piece of hardware in a field where they have no clout (Let's be honest, Valve is a PC company, and their impact on consoles is limited), and pour money into a platform that will be obsolete in a few years, not only by next-gen consoles, but by the further advancement of PC hardware. This of course ignores the huge amount of money that Valve would owe Microsoft to put Windows in these boxes, further increasing the price of this thing as those costs are passed down to consumers. In short, this would very possibly sink Valve.
    I'll bite even though I know better than to respond to you when you're spouting borderline troll stuff like this. Especially when this has been shot down by Valve so there's little point in getting worked up over it. But hey, it's Sunday and I'm bored.

    In short, you're thinking with a console mindset, not a PC/appliance one. Which is the route Valve would take in this situation.

    In all likelihood, Valve wouldn't be handling the hardware end of this. What they would do is create a hardware spec (similar to what MS does with Windows Home Server and Windows Phone) that companies like Dell and HP could target to get a little shiny sticker on their box that says "Steam Certified". If you want a good proof of concept, take a look at the Alienware x51. Or a Mac Mini. Valve has an existing partnership with Alienware/Dell so the "Big Picture" UI was probably created with something like the x51 in mind. Everyone knows Alienware is overpriced, so it's entirely possible to shave $100 or more by going with a plainer looking case, lowering the specs or just dropping the branding all together. Once you get closer to the $500 range you're making a direct move on the PS3 and 360 territory and you're certainly offering up a much better value since the x51 is simply going to run games a lot better than a 360/PS3 at this point. Besides, you'd be surprised how much a 360 actually costs you once you factor in things like a Gold subscription over the course of 5 years.

    With a theoretical Steam box I don't think they'd lock themselves into the traditional 4-5 year product cycle either. PC hardware refreshes every 12-18 months like clockwork. PC gaming scales very well, and they could easily adopt an Apple style system where they release a new model every year with improved specs. Because they're working with a known spec it would be easier for PC developers to optimize graphics for these set top boxes since there's a homogenous ecosystem. Just release an update every year which has a new settings profile for that year's targeted specs and boom, problem solved (with a fair bit of hand-waving).

    In addition, by offloading the hardware to companies like Dell and HP, Valve wouldn't need to worry about Windows license fees as most likely those companies have bulk OEM licenses in place so the impact is negligible. If Valve was smart, they'd sweeten the deal by offering part of their cut of the Steam profits (let's say 1-3% of the total purchase) to the OEM for every Steam purchase made on the system.

    So yes, Valve would be foolish to handle the hardware themselves. That doesn't mean they couldn't create a Steam box with a little out of the box thinking.

    They're better off focusing on getting DOTA 2 ready for eSports and developing Steam further, maybe making a game at some point in the next 10 years.
    I have no idea what you're talking about here aside from obvious trolling. Care to explain what you mean by your other two points?

    EDIT:

    Rereading what you wrote, I think I need to single this out:

    So with this in mind, why would Valve release a console, have it be an open platform where people could theoretically not use Steam, and therefore not give Valve royalties?
    Oh you mean like the current PC ecosystem? You know, the one where they've got 30 million+ users (on parity with Live's subscriber numbers) and are valued at appox. $3 billion by Forbes. Yeah, open platform is really killing them. You don't need to take additional royalties when you collect 30% of the sale.
    Last edited by shoptroll; 03-11-2012 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Chris should do a dramatic reading of your post on the next episode while channeling Chris Remo of Idle Thumbs
    So long & thanks for all the fish!

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    Ok this may seem to have nothing to do with the podcast and just a rant but-why is it that every game I play, the endboss is a Dragon? In no particular order World of Warcraft- loads of Dragons, Torchlight-Dragon Two worlds 2- dragon, Dragonage Origins-Dragon, Dungeon siege 2- Dragon, Witcher 1 endboss- yup you guessed it - Dragon! Skyrim-Dragon, Amalur reckoning-Dragon. I might actually be looking forward to Diablo Three because gasp the endboss might be a Demon .

  8. #8
    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    The answer is to play more JRPGs. The end boss is much more likely to be a WhatTheHellWasThat? than a dragon.

    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance

  9. #9
    Angel-Possessed Priestess Administrator Strawberry Eggs's Avatar
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    ^When was the last time I fought a dragon as a final boss in a JRPG? I think it was Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon.

    Edit- Though the last boss of the third Mario & Luigi game kinda sorta counts.
    "Tiz, please. You're getting bumpkin all over my feral bikini woman fantasy. "

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    And I'm very late to the party again.

    Anyway, was this the show about the Steambox? If it isn't, then just pretend I posted in that thread.

    Anyway, it is surprising to think that most PC players would opt for "no fuss" version of a PC. The fact that we choose PCs as our main gaming machine means that we want to do it. We want the fuss. We want to be able to either squeeze the use out of every single penny we spent, or we want to be on that cutting edge of the technology side. There is no middle ground as far as PC gamers go. Ok, well, there is..and those are filled by the weird sims that people play. And I'm not talking about dating sims--those nerds know their ways around their boxes. It's the dear hunting/train driving sims that occupies the true low end spectrum of the PC world. And I'm not saying that they're played by dumb people--they're played by people who enjoys those hobbies/occupations, and happens to have a computer lying around because they use it for work.

    A discussion was raised about Steam sales, and how that would attract the mass.
    No, it won't. Things like Steam sales and Indie bundle are for only the most hardcore of players. Most people won't wait to buy games they want and play them. Most average gamers buy whatever is the shiniest thing there is at the moment, play them, then whine about them on the net to feel good about themselves. 2 weeks later, they forgot what they just played, and the cycle starts anew.

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