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Thread: RPGCast - Episode 215: "Double Date"

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    Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflict Administrator sabin1001's Avatar
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    RPGCast - Episode 215: "Double Date"

    Sam Marchello and Scott Wachter join us for an evening of introspection and retro revery. Ok, so we just had very little news to talk about and were tired after MGC, but still!


    You can find the links to all our stories on delicious: http://delicious.com/rpgamer/215


    RPGCast streams live, sometimes on Friday at 10 PM Eastern / 7 PM Pacific, usually on Saturday at Noon Eastern / 9 AM Pacific.


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    Host of The Sectorcast Rosestorm's Avatar
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    I'll play ME3 multiplayer with you on PC Chris
    Deputy Editor of Gamersector.com
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    Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    Salutations from Backtrack land!!

    Re: Mike reviewing mediocre (or worse) older games ...usually because that's what we're about to talk about on Backtrack.

    In a way, I agree with the person who wrote the comment. I've echoed the same comment myself. I think it would be nice to have a tighter focus on older, obscure games that were actually good. However, Paws is right. Mike is on a mission to play his collection to completion, and chronicle his journey. He doesn't allow the direction of said journey to be swayed by winds telling him Persona 3 is sooo much better than Thousand arms!

    I would encourage that listener to check out our review archives. I believe they may be sorted by score. It is an excellent way to find a few of the more obscure RPGems that slipped through the cracks.

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    Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcservant View Post
    Salutations from Backtrack land!!

    Re: Mike reviewing mediocre (or worse) older games ...usually because that's what we're about to talk about on Backtrack.

    In a way, I agree with the person who wrote the comment. I've echoed the same comment myself. I think it would be nice to have a tighter focus on older, obscure games that were actually good. However, Paws is right. Mike is on a mission to play his collection to completion, and chronicle his journey. He doesn't allow the direction of said journey to be swayed by winds telling him Persona 3 is sooo much better than Thousand arms!

    I would encourage that listener to check out our review archives. I believe they may be sorted by score. It is an excellent way to find a few of the more obscure RPGems that slipped through the cracks.
    I still wonder how you get Paws and I mixed up since we sound nothing alike.

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    Code: Kirin RPGamer Staff JuMeSyn's Avatar
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    I steer my own course with the things I play. You wanna influence it, give me the money and/or the software and hardware to do so.
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    RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff Wheels's Avatar
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    Kickstarter to buy JuMeSyn good older games/systems? Anyone?

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    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    I think the point I failed to make on the 'cast is that just because a game reviewers poorly doesn't mean it shouldn't be given some TLC. Maybe a game gets a crap score because it's repetitive, or too linear, and those two things drag it down from a good review (say, a 3.5-4) down to a less than stellar review (2.5-3). Neither of those things bug me -- sometimes they've even added to games for me -- so hey, there's a game I wanna try I didn't know about. Sucky games can be fun too

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    Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    I think a kick starter for Mike would be a wonderful idea. The guy is a reviewing machine. That's worth something to everyone!

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    Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff Fowl Sorcerous's Avatar
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    kickstarter does have an approval process, even with some shifty phrasing i doubt we could slip it buy them. chipin would work though.

    also, who's that new guy on the cast, sounds like a dick.

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    I'm having the same issue... I pre-ordered Disgaea for Vita and have had the PS3 game for like forever and never played it. Figure I might actually play it as a portable. I think it suits a good portable type game.

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    New Member Member Xanaxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptHowdy View Post
    I think it suits a good portable type game.
    Tactical rpg's work very well as portable games. Nintendo caught onto that with Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Fire Emblem and Advance Wars, probably others that slip my mind too. I think taking it in bite size chunks helps break up some of the monotony that comes with those games.

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    Good podcast, though, I take issue with Sam and Scott's claim that the ending to ME3 was 'good'.

    It was not consistent with the general feel of the game, took away the choice that you had grown so used to throughout all three games, and, frankly, it reeked of the writers attempting to be Stanley Kubrick and they ended up looking like M. Knight Shamalan. And even then, that's giving the 'writers' too much credit.

    I found it rather strange that a pair of reviewers for a genre known for stories are passing over writing errors made by Bioware, which is comprised of people who tend to err and make mistakes, not to mention the sections which felt rushed and resulted in cut content, and to go so far and to insult the people that dare say that ending was, in fact, a turd (speaking as a writer myself who knows a poorly made ending when he sees one), speaks quite poorly of them.

    But for what it's worth, Chris, I too play ME3 multiplayer on PC. If you wish to play, friend me. If you're interested, PM me.

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    Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    I played Disgaea 1 on PS2, and D2 on PSP (for our review). I did enjoy that on the handheld more.

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    A Serious Man Drav's Avatar
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    Final Fantasy XIV was originally revealed as a new MMO codenamed Rapture, so it kind of was "half-announced".

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    Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iliya Moroumetz View Post
    Good podcast, though, I take issue with Sam and Scott's claim that the ending to ME3 was 'good'.

    It was not consistent with the general feel of the game, took away the choice that you had grown so used to throughout all three games, and, frankly, it reeked of the writers attempting to be Stanley Kubrick and they ended up looking like M. Knight Shamalan. And even then, that's giving the 'writers' too much credit.

    I found it rather strange that a pair of reviewers for a genre known for stories are passing over writing errors made by Bioware, which is comprised of people who tend to err and make mistakes, not to mention the sections which felt rushed and resulted in cut content, and to go so far and to insult the people that dare say that ending was, in fact, a turd (speaking as a writer myself who knows a poorly made ending when he sees one), speaks quite poorly of them.

    But for what it's worth, Chris, I too play ME3 multiplayer on PC. If you wish to play, friend me. If you're interested, PM me.
    I don't think by any means did Scott and I say it was perfect, it's just we didn't have the same kinds of beef with it that others did. I didn't review the game for RPGamer, nor am I planning to do an SO, but while I understand the inconsistencies, that didn't ruin the experience or the impact that the end had on me. For me it was an emotional rush. Was it sloppy? Yes. But was it this giant turd people made it out to be? No. As I've said in a few circles, the ending reminds me of that of the works of E.M Foster, Robert Silverberg and Issac Asimov. They always wrote endings that never felt completely resolved and often left it to the imagination of the reader as to what may or may not have happened.

    At the end of the day, I stand by my statement. I think how people are treating this situation is overblown and completely ridiculous. The entitlement issues of people demanding a new ending and acting out like spoiled children is something I personally won't stand for and I know that's how both Scott and I felt. I just felt that the way people were crying foul seemed really inappropriate. There was no way to create an ending that everyone wants and is going to love. I love stories, and yes inconsistencies bother me, but it didn't ruin my entire experience.

  16. #16
    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    Having not played ME3, my impression of this whole kerfluffle is players expected "Happily ever after" and didn't get it in a way they wanted. Not every story has a 'perfect' ending.

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    Host of The Sectorcast Rosestorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    I don't think by any means did Scott and I say it was perfect, it's just we didn't have the same kinds of beef with it that others did. I didn't review the game for RPGamer, nor am I planning to do an SO, but while I understand the inconsistencies, that didn't ruin the experience or the impact that the end had on me. For me it was an emotional rush. Was it sloppy? Yes. But was it this giant turd people made it out to be? No. As I've said in a few circles, the ending reminds me of that of the works of E.M Foster, Robert Silverberg and Issav Asmiov. They always wrote endings that never felt completely resolved and often left it to the imagination of the reader as to what may or may not have happened.

    At the end of the day, I stand by my statement. I think how people are treating this situation is overblown and completely ridiculous. The entitlement issues of people demanding a new ending and acting out like spoiled children is something I personally won't stand for and I know that's how both Scott and I felt. I just felt that the way people were crying foul seemed really inappropriate. There was no way to create an ending that everyone wants and is going to love. I love stories, and yes inconsistencies both me, but it didn't ruin my entire experience.
    I think the biggest failing is that as good as the writers are at BioWare are, they ended with a Deus Ex Machina ending.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    I don't think by any means did Scott and I say it was perfect, it's just we didn't have the same kinds of beef with it that others did. I didn't review the game for RPGamer, nor am I planning to do an SO, but while I understand the inconsistencies, that didn't ruin the experience or the impact that the end had on me. For me it was an emotional rush. Was it sloppy? Yes. But was it this giant turd people made it out to be? No. As I've said in a few circles, the ending reminds me of that of the works of E.M Foster, Robert Silverberg and Issac Asimov. They always wrote endings that never felt completely resolved and often left it to the imagination of the reader as to what may or may not have happened.
    You may not have had any problems with the ending, but I and many others do. In addition, gaming is an interactive medium, as opposed to reading and watching, which are more passive. The biggest disappointment was that there was no payoff, something you expect from playing video games. There was none. Just three colors, explosions, and Buzz Aldrin's verbal meandering. And no, there's a difference between the endings of the writers you've mentioned and the ME3 ending. The endings of the authors you listed were deliberate, but left enough to let the readers think for themselves, as you said. With ME3's ending, there's nothing. Just the depressing realization that everything you fought for was for nothing because Casey Hudson wanted to be 'deep and profound'.

    At the end of the day, I stand by my statement. I think how people are treating this situation is overblown and completely ridiculous. The entitlement issues of people demanding a new ending and acting out like spoiled children is something I personally won't stand for and I know that's how both Scott and I felt. I just felt that the way people were crying foul seemed really inappropriate. There was no way to create an ending that everyone wants and is going to love. I love stories, and yes inconsistencies bother me, but it didn't ruin my entire experience.
    It would be entitlement if the people arguing for it contributed nothing. However, they did. With the time investment to their Shepard's story, the money they paid for the games, and the feedback, which Bioware asked for.

    And frankly, I've been seeing a lot of condescension from a lot of the gaming press because 'they' don't seem to have a problem with it, but apparently, they have a problem when the gaming populace has the sheer gall to disagree. If that's the case, maybe they shouldn't be acting like such and get back to reviewing games instead of insulting the people that perhaps they erroneously seek advice for.

    As a side note; if anyone wants to quote that piece of mental masturbation 'It's not the goal, but the journey that matters', then I guess you don't mind being told everything you did was for nothing after all that you did. Endings in stories are just as important as the rest of the story and to say that it doesn't matter is pretty hypocritical.

    In short; The ending of Mass Effect 3 has left a very visible, and very ugly, black mark on an otherwise great series. If you're content with that, that's fine, just don't go around belittling people who expected better.

  19. #19
    Ysy St. Administrator Macstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iliya Moroumetz View Post
    I've been seeing a lot of condescension from a lot of the gaming press because 'they' don't seem to have a problem with it, but apparently, they have a problem when the gaming populace has the sheer gall to disagree.
    I've seen plenty of non-press that don't have a problem with the ending and lots of press that do have a problem, so just realize that before you start painting your strokes too broadly.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
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  20. #20
    News Director/Reviewer RPGamer Staff Severin Mira's Avatar
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    If you're content with that, that's fine, just don't go around belittling people who expected better.
    I'm not entirely sure how your posts have been any better on that front, if you could point it out to me that would be greatly appreciated The gaming populace is allowed to disagree with some of the gaming press but members of the gaming press can't disagree with some of the gaming populace?

    I'm also curious what value you attached to the forty+ hours that is the rest of the game and has the small bit at the end actually wiped that all enjoyment from that out for you? If so that seems like an odd position to me, but ok.
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