Class of Heroes II Kickstarter Interview with Victor Ireland

[Macstorm]

Victor Ireland of Working Designs fame is heading up a Kickstarter to make the upcoming Class of Heroes II localization as deluxe as possible. What that means exactly is discussed in detail here.

Interview

[Confessor Rahl]

Based on the progress so far... nnnnoooootttt gonna happen

[Ralsu]

I want to support this so bad. Second job no-jitsu!

[Wheels]

I would support this if there were say, a $30 option just to get a plain old physical copy and not a special edition.

[MasterChief]

Oh he's so smarmy...

VI: Again, like with the digital only edition, it would unbalance the financials of this Kickstarter and put us in a situation where we would potentially lose money making less Deluxe Packs at a higher price per unit. Also, we heard about some fans that wanted regular editions of WD games, and when we finally gave them what they wanted with Growlanser Generations in both versions, we got complaints we didn't make enough Deluxe Packs. The demand was stronger for the Deluxe than the regular, and we under produced it. And, back to minimums, we couldn't go back for a short fill-in run because the cost of goods goes way up the less you make. So that was that, and lesson learned for me. I just do Deluxe Packs at a reasonable price for everyone.

The man still doesn't get it. 9/10 people want the game, not something they can eBay 5 years later.

[EmeraldSuzaku]

I would support this if there were say, a $30 option just to get a plain old physical copy and not a special edition.

This.

As it stands, the game will cost whatever it costs, PLUS whatever I would happen to pledge, unless I pledged the requisite $59 for a copy. The only way to not end up spending an equivalent amount to the CE anyway is to not contribute to the kickstarter in the first place. Which is the problem.

[storino03]

You are missing the point. People loved WD for the games, but also for the deluxe editions they put out. They are catering towards those who loved the deluxe editions and how elaborate they were. I don't mind paying $100 (the pledge tier I chose) to support this company, even if the game itself turns out to be questionable.

Also, since part of the donations will be taxed and not to mention: If the game is pledged at $500,000, and then only $350-400k end up following through with payment, what would they do? Cancel it because it hasn't reached the full amount? A lot of questions that are still up in the air.

I do hope they make it somehow...

[MasterChief]

You are missing the point. People loved WD for the games, but also for the deluxe editions they put out. They are catering towards those who loved the deluxe editions and how elaborate they were. I don't mind paying $100 (the pledge tier I chose) to support this company, even if the game itself turns out to be questionable.

Also, since part of the donations will be taxed and not to mention: If the game is pledged at $500,000, and then only $350-400k end up following through with payment, what would they do? Cancel it because it hasn't reached the full amount? A lot of questions that are still up in the air.

I do hope they make it somehow...

Yep, because only releasing stupidly expensive editions and spending so much time on said fluff that they barely released games at all didn't help kill the original WD, oh no....

[Macstorm]

Also, since part of the donations will be taxed and not to mention: If the game is pledged at $500,000, and then only $350-400k end up following through with payment, what would they do? Cancel it because it hasn't reached the full amount? A lot of questions that are still up in the air.

People had better be factoring this into their goals, as Kickstarter is up front about it.

[freykin]

He definitely does need to add in a tier which is the "buy just the game" tier. I went ahead and put down the $59 in support of Vic from all the good times he's given me in the past (hell, I STILL play arc the lad 2 every now and then), but without a simple i want this game tier, it isn't going to make it.

[storino03]

Yep, because only releasing stupidly expensive editions and spending so much time on said fluff that they barely released games at all didn't help kill the original WD, oh no....

They released quite a lot of games in the US. Why can't a game company focus on certain aspects of the catering towards a group of gaming fans and not just churn out game after game. It's that mentality when game companies lose their focus and what made said companies unique.

[steamwolf]

Oh he's so smarmy...



The man still doesn't get it. 9/10 people want the game, not something they can eBay 5 years later.

From what I have read, you can still get the digital version of the game which doesn't have any bells and whistles...soooo...why can't people do that? If they don't care about any physical extras, then having a physical copy of the game doesn't matter unless...you're a collector. Which means you would want the special extras to increase your collector's value, whether you wish to sell it later or not. If you do not wish to keep it for the collector's value anyway, digital or physical does not matter.

Yep, because only releasing stupidly expensive editions and spending so much time on said fluff that they barely released games at all didn't help kill the original WD, oh no....

Uh...WD released a game every year from 1991 to 2004 with the grand exception of 2003...http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/company/11304.html and they didn't start adding "fluff" until Lunar 1 on the PSX, which sold 0.27 million units in North America despite said "fluff". Japan did not have "fluff" for their version and it only sold 0.06 million in Japan...the North America PSX version ALSO outsold the original Japanese Saturn version of the game...http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name...ver+Star+Story I don't know what you believe constitutes high frequency of game releases over a thirteen year span, but a game year is something most companies whether they be publishers or developers (or both), do not achieve very often. Usually, the larger companies like EA tend to have higher frequency of releases like that. And considering how niche jrpgs and anime-inspired games are (even back on the PSX) it's quite amazing that they made Lunar 1 outsell even the Japanese copies...so I guess that was just dumb luck and has nothing to do at all with the "fluff" they put in the package, right? Who wants any of that? Sales figures don't mean anything and don't tell companies that people want anything at all despite more people buying, right? People buy things when they hate them don't they?

It sounds to me like you should spend less time on negative myths, and more time on positive truths. Just a thought, it might make you feel better about life.

[TheAnimeMan]

They released quite a lot of games in the US. Why can't a game company focus on certain aspects of the catering towards a group of gaming fans and not just churn out game after game. It's that mentality when game companies lose their focus and what made said companies unique.

Yes but as a business model it's terrible. The increased amount of CE also requires more studio time, more production values which in turn require higher cost. Add in the limited release schedule (maybe 1 - 2 games a year) even if they combined multiple games would mean they are actually in turn making less of a profit, which in turn means they can't higher as many people or buy as many licenses, which eventually leads down to the path of well .... bankruptcy.

[Keldarus]

Maybe I'm old or in the minority, but I don't have space for delux edition 'junk' anymore. That's what it boils down to is it's junk.. those standees and finger puppets from the PS1 lunar games are all junk. At one time I thought it was cool to have all that junk, but now it's in a box somewhere in the basement or garage. I don't need or want most of that stuff, I don't have the room or desire to have it.. I have enough junk in my house that accumulates from everyday living. I don't need silly videogame junk that gets thrown into a delux edition because they can charge more. I just need the game and an occassional art book or on the rare occassion soundtrack. That's all I need anymore. The giant dragon statue from Skyrim is cool I guess, but it's so not practical and doesn't fit anywhere in the house, plus the 90 premium on it is silly, well now it's a 40$ premium much more pallattable, but still it's huge and not practical.. if it were maybe a 6" pewter one I'd be more inclined to buy it, but that's not really the point.. I don't need 'junk' I'll take an art book or soundtrack, but that's really all I need and or want.

In this case, the game doesn't look all that interesting, so I'm passing anyway, but I'm not paying 60$ for a PSP game no matter how 'cool' the bonus junk becomes. Plus I don't want to support Vic's bad business plans with overpriced 'junk' at huge premiums, see the fall of Working Designs.

Just my ramblings today.


-Kel

[LegendaryZoltan]

Is it just me, or is there a really important question not being asked here? Maybe I'm just ignorant (educate me if I am) but I thought kickstarter was for people who have projects but don't have money. Isn't Double Fine a pretty large game company? If they are, then where do they come off trying be kick-started by fans? Tell me what the hell is going on, you guys!

[Whoomp]

Is it just me, or is there a really important question not being asked here? Maybe I'm just ignorant (educate me if I am) but I thought kickstarter was for people who have projects but don't have money. Isn't Double Fine a pretty large game company? If they are, then where do they come off trying be kick-started by fans? Tell me what the hell is going on, you guys!

Kickstarter is really just a way to get funds without going through regular channels (ie publishers) and instead appealing to fans and their interests. Even if you are a relatively large company it could be hard to get clearance for a smaller project if you aren't already tied to a major publisher and even then their interests are not always in line with yours. As developers they get the short end of a publishing deal, just look at Obsidian and how they got shafted with Fallout New Vegas. Also, it's not that a company like inXile or Double Fine have spare money to just spread around on risky vanity projects, they are just in the size-range that they can only proceed with projects if they have a steady fund and without publishers Kickstarter is a good alternative.

[MasterChief]

Yes but as a business model it's terrible. The increased amount of CE also requires more studio time, more production values which in turn require higher cost. Add in the limited release schedule (maybe 1 - 2 games a year) even if they combined multiple games would mean they are actually in turn making less of a profit, which in turn means they can't higher as many people or buy as many licenses, which eventually leads down to the path of well .... bankruptcy.

This, pretty much. I'd rather have sweet and awesome games be the focus than embossed manuals and fancy boxes. WD focused on collectability to the exclusion of all else, and turned nearly every project of theirs into multi-year endeavors, something that was absurd for what they localized - not made, localized. This is why Atlus and XSEED are doing well: They only do CEs on very important releases like Persona or Ys, and they don't try to shove all their games into an uneconomical packages the way WD did with Arc the Lad or Growlanser.

As for how many games WD released, from 1986 to 2005 they released 29 games.
By comparison, XSEED games has released 35 games on their own, in addition to eight during their partnership with Marvelous Entertainment and one upcoming game with Nintendo, namely The Last Story, all from 2004 to now. I don't think any of us can say that XSEED is a bad company. They just focus on games and not on the extraneous nonsense that obsessed WD. It also helped that XSEED has yet to burn any bridges in the Japanese development community, even Marvelous, who screwed them over several times during the period of their partnership.

[Jitawa]

So, Working Designs folded quite awhile ago. Vic Ireland is obviously involved with Gaijinworks, but how much of the old staff is too?

I liked many Working Designs titles, but it's not clear to me that the two are exactly equivalent.

It's different in my mind with Doublefine, where the guy in charge is the same guy who was in charge with Psychonauts, etc (though without Wolpaw I guess).

[DaylightDies]

I came here expecting to see a lot of WD bashing.. nice to see just a lot of Special Edition bashing instead.

I think the argument is kind of useless, it doesn't seem like they will come even close to hitting their number. My prediction is it barely cracks $100,000

I loved WD, and will love Gaijinworks as well I am sure. They should just keep their eye on the prize and build up some capital doing the digital releases, and then when they are comfortable and stable maybe put some more capital into a game that has potential to sell very well, and then put together the special editions for that game.

[MasterChief]

So, Working Designs folded quite awhile ago. Vic Ireland is obviously involved with Gaijinworks, but how much of the old staff is too?

I liked many Working Designs titles, but it's not clear to me that the two are exactly equivalent.

It's different in my mind with Doublefine, where the guy in charge is the same guy who was in charge with Psychonauts, etc (though without Wolpaw I guess).

Vic was the boss at WD, and it was his brash, confrontational nature and irresponsible business practices that kept the company from growing and lead to its eventual dissolution. More importantly, he's shown no signs of humbling or developing a business acumen in the years since WD closed down, as evidenced by his antagonistic attitude toward XSEED over Silver Star Harmony.