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  1. #1
    Quia ego sic dico RPGamer Staff Severin Mira's Avatar
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    Gungnir - Preview

    RPGamer takes a look at what we can expect to see in the first part of Atlus' G-duology. We hope everyone remembers the Gungnir pronunciation lesson; demonic lances can get tetchy if you get their name wrong.

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    Gunclaws and Meow. Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    Want. Gimme.

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    Another game I wish I could play on my PS2.
    Curses.
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    Thanks for the preview.
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    A Witness to Destruction Moderator DarkRPGMaster's Avatar
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    Wow, a Heaven's Department game I actually REALLY want. That hasn't happened since Riviera: The Promised Land.
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    So is the 'J' in Julio pronounced as a 'J' or an 'H'?
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    I'm excited. I like a good strategy RPG every year or so... I think this one will fit the bill, provided it gets good reviews and seems interesting around the time of release..

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    Member reionpremente's Avatar
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    As long as this game doesn't rely on cards to fight, I'll be fine. Yes, I'm looking at you Yggdra Union. Biggest waste of money I ever spent.

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    Gunclaws and Meow. Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    Ironically, Yggdra is my fave of the series. Mostly the PSP version though, which didn't try to bend you over quite as frequently.

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    Member Aurian's Avatar
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    I ma curious but I got burned by Yggdra and Knights in a Nightmare. There is a Goldilocks level of complexity I like in a strategy RPG. If there are 50+ tutorials (knights) or complex anti-intutive system (cards? Really?) it feels like it becomes less about strategy and more about just trying to make a complex system work....

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    Member reionpremente's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurian View Post
    I ma curious but I got burned by Yggdra and Knights in a Nightmare. There is a Goldilocks level of complexity I like in a strategy RPG. If there are 50+ tutorials (knights) or complex anti-intutive system (cards? Really?) it feels like it becomes less about strategy and more about just trying to make a complex system work....
    Did Knights involve cards at all? I thought that was actually one of the series that didn't... Riviera I thought was also another that didn't... I just hope this one doesn't as well because the game really looks interesting to me. Fortunately, this one looks like a standard strategy game like FF Tactics... and Tactics Ogre. The only thing that bugged me about TO was that TO required cards in order for you to change classes... *sigh* What is the fascination with the Japanese and cards in video games? It really bothers me... all it does is makes you go out of your way to find needless junk you don't need to do a necessary task to improve in the game. It's overly complicated for its own good. And this is supposed to be fun? It had me going for a minute until I heard that part... I wanted to try the game too. ~_~

    Gungnir looks beautifully crafted... I definitely want to try it. I wish there were a demo of it so I could sample it first. Sadly they don't really give demos of strategy games though much do they?
    Last edited by reionpremente; 04-07-2012 at 08:55 PM.

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    Member TheAnimeMan's Avatar
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    Notice the use of OR. Neither Knights nor Rivieria used Cards. But Knights had an INSANE number of tutuorials to go through even compared to most SRPG's

    Looknig forward to this.
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    Member reionpremente's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimeMan View Post
    Notice the use of OR. Neither Knights nor Rivieria used Cards. But Knights had an INSANE number of tutuorials to go through even compared to most SRPG's

    Looknig forward to this.
    So Knights was just hard to understand then... I see what you're saying. And NEITHER game used Cards... so it was just Yggdra Union that did. Why do that to a perfectly tangible RPG system? I don't get it. Well, it was looking like Yggdra Gloria was revisiting the card system from Union as well, so make that two. So altogether there are 6 games in this series? (Gungnir included)

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    We got Riviera, Yggdra Union, Knights in the Nightmare, and now Gungnir. And we have Yggdra Unison, Blaze Union, and Gloria Union, spinoffs of Yggdra Union. So that makes seven, if you count the spinoffs, but can't remember if Gloria Union is actually related to the Dept. Heaven series storywise.

    Also reionpremente, pardon my asking but I was wondering, is your problem with cards the mere name and depiction of them? I mean, in Yggdra, if the objects used in the gameplay were called and depicted as something like "strategy scrolls" or "skill gems", but still used the same way would you dislike the game as much?
    Last edited by Jungyin; 04-09-2012 at 11:16 AM.

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    Member reionpremente's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungyin View Post
    We got Riviera, Yggdra Union, Knights in the Nightmare, and now Gungnir. And we have Yggdra Unison, Blaze Union, and Gloria Union, spinoffs of Yggdra Union. So that makes seven, if you count the spinoffs, but can't remember if Gloria Union is actually related to the Dept. Heaven series storywise.

    Also reionpremente, pardon my asking but I was wondering, is your problem with cards the mere name and depiction of them? I mean, in Yggdra, if the objects used in the gameplay were called and depicted as something like "strategy scrolls" or "skill gems", but still used the same way would you dislike the game as much?
    My whole problem with cards in games is that I hate having cards as the only means of combat. My problem was that I tried Yggdra Union and I hated it. I mean I literally hated it. I didn't understand it and I just didn't like it. When I heard Ogre Battle: Let us Cling Together had a Card element in there I got immediately scared thinking it was going to be another Yggdra Union. The problem I had with Union was that I couldn't use any other means to attack the enemy... I could only use cards... I hated that. I didn't know what cards did what or whatever... I got rid of it because I didn't have the patience for it.

    I was hoping that it was just another SRPG like FF Tactics... and I was very upset when it wasn't. I haven't tried Tactics Ogre yet... but I really want to. My problem with this was that I'd heard that in order to upgrade in the game you had to find upgrade gems or cards in order to change your class. How is this done and is this as scary as I'm dreading it to be? Because what I thought was I'd have to go completely out of my way to find these things just to upgrade my class and by that time I wouldn't care anymore. I want to change my mind about this game... I really do. What I want to know is how bad is it to do this? I could get over the hate for 'cards in games' if I knew how to use them properly... the only problem was that Union didn't tell you squat and arrogantly expected you to know what you were doing.

    I'd love to change my opinion of the Yggdra franchise if I could just figure out how to play the darn things.

  15. #15
    Moderator Moderator flamethrower's Avatar
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    Yep, the Yggdra games were really wonky.

    Normal RPG: An attack that hits deals damage, most of the time.
    1) Most important thing: hitting (if you don't hit, nothing else matters)
    2) 2nd most important thing: attack power
    3) Other things that don't matter much: enemy defense power

    Yggdra:
    1) Most important thing: winning clashes (if you don't win a clash, nothing else matters)
    2) 2nd most important thing: the card power (not attack or anything like that)
    3) Other not very important stuff, like the character's attack / defense stat (?)

    Now skills:
    Normal RPG:
    1) Earn skill (various methods depending on game)
    2) Select from menu (must have enough MP) OR automatically use depending on situation

    Yggdra:
    1) Select the card with the skill you want to use
    2) Match the ace type
    3) Match the restrictions (character-specific skills)
    4) Start battle, fill skill gauge, then activate

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    RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff 7thCircle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungyin View Post
    Also reionpremente, pardon my asking but I was wondering, is your problem with cards the mere name and depiction of them? I mean, in Yggdra, if the objects used in the gameplay were called and depicted as something like "strategy scrolls" or "skill gems", but still used the same way would you dislike the game as much?
    It makes me squirm when I see Yggdra referred to as a game with cards for the exact reason you mentioned. You select from a set of options which skills you want to bring into battle, and then non-randomly choose from them to determine movement and special attacks. They just happen to be depicted as cards. It's a visual aesthetic, not a gameplay mechanic. It probably stole the idea from the original tactics RPG, Ogre Battle, which also used cards as a visual presentation of skills.

    That said, people are allowed to hate Yggdra in my world. It was complex and the GBA version was super hard. I loved it, but I like hard, complex games. Just please don't refer to it as a card game because that's inaccurate.
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  17. #17
    Member reionpremente's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, I think Gungnir looks REALLY good. I can't wait to try it. I just hope it's straight forward and doesn't try to over complicate itself like Knights in the Nightmare did.

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