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Thread: RPGCast - Episode 266: "It's A SE3cret To Everybody"

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    Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflict Administrator sabin1001's Avatar
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    RPGCast - Episode 266: "It's A SE3cret To Everybody"

    RPGCast - Episode 266: "It's A SE3cret To Everybody"

    What a week. First we learn what really happens at E3. Then Quin gets hungry. After that, Square Enix gets real specific. But Diablo 3 gets broken and then fixed. Following that ordeal, The Lord of the Rings Online turns into Southbeach Towing. Then everybody panics about XSEED and quits playing WoW.

    You can find the links to all our stories on delicious: http://delicious.com/rpgamer/266

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  2. #2
    これはメタです RPGamer Staff Quin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabin1001 View Post
    Then Quin gets hungry.
    In my defence, I did go and make the best plate of spaghetti bolognese I'd ever cooked.

    befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.

  3. #3
    Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff noodle's Avatar
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    i'm surprised that you didn't add something like "noodle would rather clean up cat barf then play age of wushu."

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    Releaser of Heavy Metal LegendaryZoltan's Avatar
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    I love boobies. I just wanted you guys to know that.

    It blows my mind that you guys don't like the Dragon's Crown art. VanillaWare games having unbelievable 2D art is the one consistent thing about them. You guys don't like it because of the breasts? Come on! What about the dragons and the environments? Do you not like them as well?

    About FFX-2: the final mission is part of the international game which has English dialogue. I don't think they would allow there to be one dungeon where people start speaking Japanese. Also I have a faint memory of possibly having played the international version. So it's probably already on English.

    On a final note: Breasts.
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  5. #5
    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    I'm not offended by the artwork (particularly since they've treated the guy characters just as lavishly as the women), but I feel like I've grown out of characters that are highly sexualized. It's certainly beautiful art, just not my bag, baby.

  6. #6
    I remember you guys saying it was "okay" before because that's just their style, so I'm surprised to see the turnaround. I'm sure you guys saw the Penny Arcade comic about it, right? :P

  7. #7
    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    Much of the Dragon Crown artwork is gorgeous, but I'm so so over characters like the Sorceress. I'm not really into highly exaggerated physical design like the kind in this game as a general rule, but add a lady with dirigibles attached to her chest and falling out of her dress and it just makes me sigh. Since character design is one of the most important aspects of the graphics in an RPG for me, the character designs immediately turned me off the game.

    I say this as a bi woman who enjoys some nice cleavage myself. In fictional characters, however, I want that cleavage to be part of a full package of a character who is first and foremost empowered and created to be an interesting character, not to be eye candy.
    Last edited by Ocelot; 05-12-2013 at 07:07 PM.

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    First of all, it's truly wonderful to hear from Noodle's cute voice again. Kirby! World of Wushu was awful for her but it was very entertaining. I understand most of the concepts being Scottish born Chinese, but it sounds like an extremely frustrating game. The pills for instance, in Kung Fu fantasy, you can gain superhuman powers from eating special plants and animals ...guess what the pills are made from? Liang is ancient chinese for a measure of weight-the common currency is silver that looks gravel shaped bits but you can have a liang of pork for instance, bigger coinage is shaped in funny hat like ingots and even bigger amounts in promisory notes with the appropriate seals stamped on it.Having so many types of currency is just confusing, should at least streamline it down to two.
    Food of course, is close to religion in China , so it makes a bizarre sense that you get a poison debuff from not eating, some manga/anime characters suffer a huge loss of power when they fail to get sustenance. Being less powerful than the small child of the local Master or their grandpa is also a Martial arts trope. Microstansactions annoy me, I guess Im old school I want a set fee and not having to worry about how ot pay to win. Quinn reminds me that the whole world loves Italian food, I've made tagliatelle mushroom, ham and carbonara for two days in a roll. As another Denizen of the United Kingdom let me comment, America is called fully, the "The United States of America" United Kingdom-shorter-get it right .

    And Lastly the great Boobies debate, to love boobs or not, is not the question but using sexy females to sell stuff is not new. Too much of anything will desensitize us whether it be boobies or violence, as we get older, we tend to have an ability to look past the front cover. Which actually leads us to the question- who is the target audience?Is it the 13-24 male demographic? is it because they still make up the largest percentage of the gaming public? I honestly don't know. And, I kinda agree with Manny, E3 is an "industry" show, of course, we the paying public ultimately pays all their wages but it's not the right sort of venue to celebrate our geek identity, there are plenty of other shows that has more for fans to do, as mentioned- PAX.
    Last edited by risingsun; 05-13-2013 at 10:50 AM. Reason: spacing

  9. #9
    Too much of anything will desensitize us whether it be boobies or violence, as we get older, we tend to have an ability to look past the front cover. Which actually leads us to the question- who is the target audience?Is it the 13-24 male demographic? is it because they still make up the largest percentage of the gaming public?
    We need to stop assuming teen males are the only people who can't look past sex. Girls are just as guilty. Heck, in my experience, more so. Are there people out there smart enough to not be fooled by such things. Of course! Do those people make up the majority of the population? F**k no.

    They're not targeting "teen males", but shallow people with shallow tastes and that demographic is not restricted to age or gender, nor will it ever go away. You think the adage "sex sells" only applies to the video game industry? It's been around a lot longer than that.

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    I have to agree with TG that "sex sells" for the people who pick up games/other media for that reason. In the game industry there are probably too many people who still believe that having "sexy" art is the way to get the biggest sales. I don't disagree that "attractive art" is a major seller of a game, but there are plenty of ways to make art "attractive" without going to the "sexy" (or overly sexualized) route which is overused and frankly pretty boring. I'd love to see more games add "scenery porn" but I'm sure that takes a lot more creativity and effort than making more "sexy" characters.

  11. #11
    I agree there is a more tasteful way to do sexy, but that's no reason to bail out on otherwise good games. I'd rather support a good game and tell the developer I could live without the stupid art style than not buy the game and let a potentially good NON-FPS franchise die.

  12. #12
    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    Actually, it's a perfectly good reason to bail on a game. I'm not going to spend my money on something I see as distasteful or exploitative. There are plenty of choices out there for my gaming enjoyment, and there are worse reasons to skip out on a game.

    Some gamers care a lot about combat systems. I can handle a less-than-ideal combat system if I enjoy a game's setting, story, or characters. It happens that character design is my particular bugaboo. If I don't like the way the characters in a game "read" to me, I don't tend to enjoy the game (especially with RPGs and adventure games, but I'll even turn my nose up at action games if the characters either don't interest me or actively repel me). I also feel strongly about objectification in all forms of media, both of men and women.

    I don't have a problem with characters being attractive (although what that means is awfully subjective). It's well known amongst the RPGamer staff that I'm quite fond of Juris from Atelier Ayesha, and that I think Fang from Final Fantasy XIII is smokin' (the screenshots chosen for this Best Graphics award just might have been a cute nod in my direction by Ms. Nyx--or in Noodle's direction in the case of the Snow shot). But there's a line that games can cross in which women (it's almost never men in the case of games, but it is both in the case of advertisements) are portrayed in a way that makes them less people and more a collection of supposedly attractive body parts. That's objectification, it's icky, I'm not supporting it with my money, and that's my perogative.

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    Member lolwhoops's Avatar
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    the characters in Dragon's Crown really disappoint me. I just don't see any of them being fun for me to see fighting on screen. They're way too exaggerated for my tastes.
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  14. #14
    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    A point to be considered: it's easier to tell (and more talked about) when a female character is sexualized, because a) it's still a heteronormative male dominated journalism industry, b) it's ZOMG LOOK AT HER TITS.

    I'm going to agree with Ocelot in that if you want to object to a game, no matter if your reason is "justified," do it with your wallet. I don't think we'll be buying Dragon's Crown (or at least not at full price, which is sad because I really liked Muramasa.) I'm also amused the two women on staff who are open about their sexual preferences are both going "Ummmmm....yikes" :P

  15. #15
    I didn't learn anything! MasterChief's Avatar
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    The whole Dragon's Crown art controversy seems SO manufactured. Where was all the rage/indignation when Ignition was the publisher?

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  16. #16
    That Guy You Hate RPGamer Staff omegabyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterChief View Post
    The whole Dragon's Crown art controversy seems SO manufactured. Where was all the rage/indignation when Ignition was the publisher?
    The whole controversy was invented by a single Kotaku story. Nobody gave a damn until that story went up and then it blew up when the character designer was stupid enough to reply to it (and in a really dumb and homophobic way)

    I think Tycho's argument on Penny Arcade was pretty succinct. These characters (and not just the sorceress, all of them) aren't just sexualized, they're the physical embodiment of primal human attributes. It's pretty appropriate considering that, from what I understand about the game, the characters are literal avatars with no real personal story or character to speak of. Personally I think it's the most unique and interesting artwork Vanillaware has created yet.
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  17. #17
    Eh.

    I just don't care about oversexualization of women in games. It is neither a selling point, nor anything that would stop me from playing a game. On the other hand, oversexualizing males in a game would definitely stop me from even considering purchasing the game, so I can understand why women generally may find the standard trend of oversexualizing women to be offensive.

    Honestly though, I find pointless inclusion of sexual situations, most of which are rarely tasteful, to be juvenile and almost always detract from the overall package. Fable, Mass Effect, Dragon Age- all would have been completely fine without the "romances", or in Fable's case- the orgies.

  18. #18
    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    Actually, I've given a damn since I first saw the artwork. Didn't like it then, don't like it now. There's no "controversy" except that the game's art director acted like a jerk in response to criticism of his art. It's just people saying, "You know, I don't like this artwork, and this is why." It's what I've been saying since the very beginning. Adriaan disagrees with me, and I understand his point of view. I respect it more than, "I just don't care," in fact. What the artist is doing just doesn't speak to me in that way, though, hence my complete lack of desire to buy the game.

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  19. #19
    I didn't learn anything! MasterChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
    Actually, I've given a damn since I first saw the artwork. Didn't like it then, don't like it now. There's no "controversy" except that the game's art director acted like a jerk in response to criticism of his art. It's just people saying, "You know, I don't like this artwork, and this is why." It's what I've been saying since the very beginning. Adriaan disagrees with me, and I understand his point of view. I respect it more than, "I just don't care," in fact. What the artist is doing just doesn't speak to me in that way, though, hence my complete lack of desire to buy the game.
    Heh, I don't frequent Kotaku so I probably just missed it, but yeah, I'd be more offended by art designer being a POS than the art. Personally, I thought it was gorgeous artwork, but without the personality we saw in Muramasa or even Odin Sphere.
    Last edited by MasterChief; 05-13-2013 at 04:05 PM.

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    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    Kotaku's article wasn't the only one to discuss the artwork's extreme style, and someone will have to toss me a link to the developer's comment, because I don't recall it being especially homophobic.

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