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Thread: Poll - FF Off the Rails?

  1. #1
    Code: Kirin RPGamer Staff JuMeSyn's Avatar
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    Poll - FF Off the Rails?

    Which of these Final Fantasy games has damaged the brand most?
    Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns
    Final Fantasy XIV
    Final Fantasy Versus XIII
    The brand has not been damaged
    It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by JuMeSyn View Post
    Which of these Final Fantasy games has damaged the brand most?
    Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns
    Final Fantasy XIV
    Final Fantasy Versus XIII
    The brand has not been damaged
    Its a tough question. But yes the brand has been damaged somewhat

    HOWEVER

    there have been some really great ff titles this gen like ff ta 2, revant wings, 4 heroes of light, type zero, dimensions, ect... I even think 13/-2 were great.

    What damaged it was XIV

  3. #3
    FF7. By far FF7. I can't think of any game in the series that I feel ruined the franchise and genre more than FF7. One of the worst games ever made, in my opinion. Didn't even feel like an FF, I'm still convinced that it was just some mediocre RPG that they decided to slap the FF name on for sales reasons. And not just because I didn't like the game (then or now), but because of its lasting taint on the fanbase and genre since.

    I'd take any of the 13 or 14 titled games over 7.

    Although from as objective a viewpoint as possible. I think that almost all of the main series FF games since X have been damaging in some manner. 11 caused a rift by being an MMO, and a numbered MMO at that. 12 caused more damage by being too "western/MMO" feeling. 13 caused the rift to widen by being antithesis to the exploration found in almost all previous FF titles, and 14 was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Really though, you can go back at least to the PSX games and find angry fans with every iteration. FF7, 8 and 9 all divided the fanbase more in the west than any of the previous titles had.

    But one thing I've learned, is that Square has redeemed the franchise several times after it flew off the tracks. After the awful 7 and 8, we got the great game that was 9. Same thing happened on the PS2 era- 10 and 11 were not anything like what I wanted, but I was rewarded with a great game that was 12. So even if I don't like what they are currently serving out, there are people that like it, and I can hope that maybe the next game will be designed for my tastes. So far, its been the third/last game on a console generation that has been a redeemer, and I'm holding hopes for whatever FF15 is to be good.
    Last edited by smacd; 05-14-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Overdosing Heavenly Bliss Moderator ChickenGod's Avatar
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    Odd poll, considering there was probably room for more options. In my opinion the brand has been damaged somewhat so I'm in agreement with Luigi there. Why did you guys have to bundle 13 and its sequels? How do you expect someone like me who loves one to death but hates the other to even consider that option?

    For me its a combination of games that have really hurt the brand. 11, 12, 13-2, and 14 spring to mind as the most prominent. Concerning Versus and 13-3, they'll really only hurt the brand when they come out and actually suck. Right now I don't even think of Versus as a "main" FF, its more a spin off like Crystal Chronicles is at this point. Lack of Type-O in English doesn't help either. Personally if I had to pin it all on one game, I'd say 12 hurt the FF image the most in my eyes. As a single player RPG, it was one of the biggest disappointments I've ever played.
    Last edited by ChickenGod; 05-14-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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    That Guy You Hate RPGamer Staff omegabyte's Avatar
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    Considering that FF14 is the only game in the franchise to receive universally negative critical reviews and was released as a buggy, unfinished, and poorly translated mess, it has to be FF14.

    FF13 has been polarizing, sure, but its got just as many fans as it has haters, so I'd hardly say it's been detrimental to the overall brand. In fact, polarizing opinions can often be beneficial to a brand, not damaging. And since Vs 13 isn't out and likely never will be out, it really can't be seen as anything other than a broken promise. If it gets released and then sucks harder than FF14, I might change my tune.
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    Staff Healer RPGamer Staff TwinBahamut's Avatar
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    Of the options listed, it's 14. That release was an unmitigated disaster, and fixing it has been very costly.

    Overall, the biggest problem isn't a single game; it is the general decline in quality ever since the Square Enix merger. I've already said plenty about how much I despite FF12, but it can also be said that the very fact that (regardless of quality) FF11 and FF14 have been MMOs has been polarizing and divisive, 13 was flawed and its sequels really are a mistake, and Versus XIII has been in limbo for far too long. The biggest problem, though, is that the two FF games that could have improved people's recent opinions of the series, Type-0 and the "not technically an FF but who cares" Bravely Default have had trouble coming over here (thank God, or maybe Nintendo, that at least one finally is).

    Simply put, fans of the series have nothing to really look forward to, and that is the most important thing in a recurring franchise. We can't look forward to the few things that look good because of unending development and localization problems, and the games that are almost certain to come over (Lightning Returns, sadly) generally are not what people actually want. There is no hope to be found, other than the vague hope that FF15 will actually be announced and somehow escape the problems plaguing the previous 6 console FF games (12, 13, 14, vs13, 13-2, LR). I mean, I guess I can hope for a FF Type-1 that actually gets a Western release, but that might also be a long shot at this point.

  7. #7
    Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff Fowl Sorcerous's Avatar
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    If i'm playing by the rules 14. Versus 13 has replaced Duke Nukem Forever as the punchline in release date jokes, but will inevitably come out and be just as polarizing as every post-nomura FF release.
    Colouring outside the lines, you know Nomura killed this brand for a great many people and will continue to do so until a SE gets a CEO with the balls to kick him out of the office, arguing over whether it was 7 or 8 or 10 is just something we all do to kill time.

  8. #8
    A Mechanized Castle Clix's Avatar
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    Nomura has only really negatively affected FFVII via Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. Beyond art, he literally has done nothing else to most of the series, and his involvement has been pretty small in recent years beyond (diminishing) fanservice in the KH games.

    The damage began in the PS2 era. I personally point at FFX due to my extreme dislike of that game, but XI and XII are where things started to get nasty (despite my personal respect for both). As mention, XI alienated people by being a completely different venue despite keeping the Roman numeral. XII, meanwhile, took forever to come out and wasn't fully baked due to still-largely-secret developer-producer-relations woes. The recent games have just been ripe cherries that confirm things aren't going well; XIII took a while and also came out half-assed, and XIV repeated the "sin" of XI and didn't even have the decency to at least be good while being different from 90% of the series.

    At this point, XV would have to be one hell of a game to win back many (though I'd personally settle for something FFXII-tier at this point).

  9. #9
    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    And here I thought I was alone for not liking Final Fantasy X.

    I voted FFXIV, but that's my personal prejudice because I had to post so much dang media for that game prior to launch, and then when it came out it turned out that it sucked. I'm not one of those people who feels super-strongly about Final Fantasy as a series despite loving two of the games in that series, so I generally feel free to be kinda flippant about it all.

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  10. #10
    A Witness to Destruction Moderator DarkRPGMaster's Avatar
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    It was definitely FFXIV that hurt the brand. FFXIII was actually a decent FF game, and FFXIII-2 was the same. I hope FFXV does the brand some good, and considering the rumors I've been hearing that Versus XIII is now FFXV, it's very possible it will do some good.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster View Post
    considering the rumors I've been hearing that Versus XIII is now FFXV
    I really hope that rumor is false. Nothing about Versus XIII has sounded appealing to me in any way. And if XV ends up bad, it'll destroy my theory that the best numbered FFs have numbers divisible by 3.
    Last edited by smacd; 05-14-2013 at 05:46 PM.

  12. #12
    A Witness to Destruction Moderator DarkRPGMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smacd View Post
    I really hope that rumor is false. Nothing about Versus XIII has sounded appealing to me in any way. And if XV ends up bad, it'll destroy my theory that the best numbered FFs have numbers divisible by 3.
    That theory was already destroyed with Final Fantasy 3.
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  13. #13
    Member lolwhoops's Avatar
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    FF 4-10, then 12, have all been successfully beaten by me at some point shortly after obtaining them. Final Fantasy 13 still hasn't made me want to play it and 13-2 is just sitting there staring at me. I got it for free when I bought my new 360. It just doesn't beg me to play like most of the others.

    That said, FF14 being the way it was completely shattered my faith in a FF game coming that would be quality time spent. There's always been ones I preferred over another, so I just figured 13 was the rare nose turner. But I'm not likely to rush for another FF game at launch for quite some time.
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  14. #14
    chaotic neutral observer ironmage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster View Post
    That theory was already destroyed with Final Fantasy 3.
    Maybe he meant FF3-US. Then we could count FF6 twice. :-P


    I don't think I could point to any one FF game and say, "that's where it broke".

    FFX-2 was the worst for me, but I don't think it had that much effect on the brand. FF12 felt like a transition point; I really liked the game, but the loss of Matsuno partway through meant there was a lot of unrealized potential. FF13 was an okay enough RPG, but it just didn't feel like an FF game. Yet, I don't think 13 particularly damaged the brand, so much as attempted to redirect it. 13-2 had real issues, though.

    I see what's happening as a gradual decline, rather than an abrupt collapse. Which is worse, in a way; a bad game now and then can be dismissed as an anomaly, but a downward spiral is harder to wave away.

    I don't consider FF11 and FF14 to be all that strongly connected to the FF brand proper. FF14 definitely hurt S/E's reputation, but FF itself? I guess it depends on how strongly the single-player and online variants are associated in people's minds....


    Hmm. Maybe "All the Bravest" should have been a poll choice.
    Last edited by ironmage; 05-14-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  15. #15
    New Member Member Endless Despair's Avatar
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    Gonna agree with FF14 doing the most damage to the franchise. Still not sure why Square-Enix decided to make a 3 part FF13 series. I'm not on the 13 hate wagon or anything, but damn near any of the other FF's would've had more interesting sequels.
    Objection! That's so fun to say.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster View Post
    That theory was already destroyed with Final Fantasy 3.
    Compared to FF1 and FF2 - FF3 is an excellent game and my preferred one of that era. What might hurt my theory is that 4 and 5 are both good games, although not arguably superior to 6, so my theory holds.

    I suppose a more refined version of my theory would be expressed mathematically as: Where Z is an integer, if Z mod 3 = 0 then Z > Z-1 and Z > Z-2.

    I generally believe that a game can only really be judged with respect to what came before it, not after. Thats the most fair way I can objectively judge older games.
    Last edited by smacd; 05-14-2013 at 09:25 PM.

  17. #17
    FF14, but it's a good thing that happened. It made Square step back and really question their methods. Of course, we still don't know anything about versus, but hopefully they learned something from FF14.

  18. #18
    I wouldn't blame it on any game in particular. What has destroyed them was their will to always have the best graphics possibly and the fact that trying this these days requires too many resources. Their games ended up graphics only and outright boring.

    I don't get why no bigger developer has the courage to actually release 2D RPGs for non-handhelds.

  19. #19
    The Gratitude Pokemon Shaymin's Avatar
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    Is it fair to say that the *announcement* of FFXIV was enough to damage the brand? I mean it went "FINAL FANTASY XIV..."

    *fangasm*

    *...ONLINE"

    *rage*
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  20. #20
    Well it depends on what you mean by "damage".

    In terms of "damage" to the imagery of the series, Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns is the worst. Direct sequels? MADNESS!

    In terms of "damage" to the fan base, Final Fantasy XIV actually did the most damage. Its no secret that Final Fantasy XI fans were looking forward to FFXIV; 'Look a HD sequel of FFXI! It even has the same looking races! (albeit under different names) What could POSSIBLY go wrong?' Well as it turns out, EVERYTHING. Say what you will about FFIV/FFVI/FFVII/FFIX fans, they're all petty rabble compared to the monthly subscription fee paying FFXI fans.

    In terms of "damage" for where the series is going, Final Fantasy Versus XIII effectively crippled the series. The game was announced when? 2006? And when is it being released? Oh whats that you say? There isn't a release date? A release window? Projection? Magic 8-Ball answer? "Try again later"

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