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Thread: Xboned - Currents

  1. #1
    RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff InstaTrent's Avatar
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    Xboned - Currents

    In Soviet Russia, Xbox One Kinect watches...oh, wait. In this issue of RPGamer's Currents, Xbox One disappoints, Insomniac fails to make an impact with the reworked Fuse, pre-owned games are on the way out, and PS Vita Remote Play is here to stay.

    CURRENTS
    Last edited by InstaTrent; 06-04-2013 at 11:52 AM.
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    Member flamethrower's Avatar
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    Not all of Sony's PS4 messaging was gaming focused. For example, during the launch event they touted a feature that would let you upload your gameplay video to YouTube and share it with your friends.

    That remote play feature looks interesting. Essentially, it offers what Wii U does (for supported games only), albeit at a higher price.

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    Staff Healer RPGamer Staff TwinBahamut's Avatar
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    I'm not really the type to buy used games or sell games that I own, but I am too much a fan of sharing and renting games to want to see that market fade. I don't think it is the inevitable future, either. You compared this to Steam, Trent, but I'm not sure that is an apt comparison. So far, Steam has worked for those who like that style of purchasing and ownership, and console disc releases have worked for those who preferred a different system of purchasing and ownership. People who like the advantages of Steam have been free to chase after it, but those who don't like it have had good options to choose from that match their preferences. If that changes in the future, and everyone is forced to conform to just the Steam model without any alternatives, I think there is going to be a significant backlash. After all, it would be nothing more than the removal of options that many people have found to be desirable and convenient.

    While I imagine that publishers or platform-makers will try to get rid of pre-owned games and all of the other traditional options available to physical disc owners, I don't think they will fully succeed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a successful push to expand downloadable sales on console platforms, but I think the future is a continuation of the current hybrid market, not a complete removal of the traditional disc market.

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    That Guy You Hate RPGamer Staff omegabyte's Avatar
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    I know at least one staff member (Macstorm) who is probably wetting himself at the prospect of Vita remote play for PS4 games. Honestly, if it's true that all games are going to support it, that would probably be enough for me to make the PS4 my platform-of-choice next gen over the PC I'm currently using.
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    A side benefit of the ability to remote play on the Vita is if you share your entertainment center, someone could play their PS4 games while someone else uses the TV for a different console. As someone who would use that a ton, this has me more excited about a PS4 !

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    Veteran RPGamer watcher's Avatar
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    Given what Steam and the like have done for prices of PC games, I have no problem losing the secondary market. I particularly won't miss Gamestop, seeing as how they monopolized the secondary market for years after buying out all their competitors and have done some memorably sleazy things.

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    Member Cidolfas's Avatar
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    My issue is not the inability to buy used games (I rarely do that). I'm more worried about the fact that digital games never seem to go down in price. It's like the whole economics thing doesn't matter to publishers - they think that people are willing to pay the same $60 for a 5-year-old title that they were at launch time. I can't imagine this is helping their bottom line, as there are plenty of games out there I would consider buying for $20 or $30 that I wouldn't dream of sinking $60 into.

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    A Witness to Destruction Moderator DarkRPGMaster's Avatar
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    Use Steam Cidolfas, they have specials every week, and almost every game on there gets a sale at some time or another. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was $5 on there the other week. And Batman: Arkham City GOTY edition is only $7.50 on there right now, compared to its normal price of $30.
    Last edited by DarkRPGMaster; 06-05-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cidolfas View Post
    My issue is not the inability to buy used games (I rarely do that). I'm more worried about the fact that digital games never seem to go down in price. It's like the whole economics thing doesn't matter to publishers - they think that people are willing to pay the same $60 for a 5-year-old title that they were at launch time. I can't imagine this is helping their bottom line, as there are plenty of games out there I would consider buying for $20 or $30 that I wouldn't dream of sinking $60 into.
    Steam has been great for PC game price cuts. Even Origin does sales and price cuts. This trend is changing on consoles, too. If you follow the PlayStation Blog, there are permanent price cuts on digital games every week. Nintendo even has sales sometimes, and hopefully we'll start seeing permanent price cuts on the Wii U store soonish (though I wouldn't expect them on a lot of first-party titles, which tend to keep their value even at physical retail).

    I haven't turned on my 360 in ages, so I'm not sure how Microsoft is doing with digital price cuts. I do know that the company purposefully launches digital versions of games months after their physical release at full price. According to a MS rep, enough customers were buying at that full price that Microsoft felt no need to discount the titles even though their physical copies were selling for $10-$30 less at the time of launch. We'll see if that can hold up for the next generation (especially against Sony's more aggressive price-cutting), but if it does, consumers have nobody but themselves to blame.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
    I haven't turned on my 360 in ages, so I'm not sure how Microsoft is doing with digital price cuts. I do know that the company purposefully launches digital versions of games months after their physical release at full price. According to a MS rep, enough customers were buying at that full price that Microsoft felt no need to discount the titles even though their physical copies were selling for $10-$30 less at the time of launch. We'll see if that can hold up for the next generation (especially against Sony's more aggressive price-cutting), but if it does, consumers have nobody but themselves to blame.
    Microsoft used to have some rule about GoD (Games on Demand) versions coming 6 months after retail. Now its seeming to be only 2 or so months. The GoD versions still tend to be more expensive than retail versions since they come at original retail and the current retail has usually dropped by the time they come.

    Now on the other hand, Microsoft does have the gold member deals of the week. I've purchased close to 60 XBLA games at 33-80% off, and many DLC items, since the DotW program started a couple years ago. Nearly everything I've wanted, other than 2 XBLA games so far, have been deals at some point.

    And as for permanent price drops, they do have drops and they even have a widget somewhere in the interface that shows all of the drops in the previous 5 months or so (though it doesn't usually show the current drops). I have no idea if that encompasses all the drops, but there are often around 6-10 items listed reduced in price between XBLA, DLC, and GoD. Still, in my experience, GoD prices tend to be more expensive than retail new. The only exception that I can identify is when they had the massive GoD game sale week back in March, where games were 50-80% off. That's when I purchased my only GoD game- Portal 2, for I think it was $10, but might have been more I don't recall.

    If you look around now though, the prices are pretty erratic. Quite a few have dropped, but there are plenty of games listed at $39.99 that have long since dropped to $19.99 for a retail copy new, assuming you can find it. For me, I simply can't justify getting a digital copy of a game unless its cheaper than retail.

    I have a feeling that Microsoft will change to a day-one digital release cycle with the xbone. Honestly though, I'm still surprised they have an optical drive at all. How they will handle pricing is another beast. I do hope that they start approaching the Steam model. On the other hand, I still would take Microsoft's current model over Nintendo's. First party Nintendo games take years and years to go down in price in retail, and who knows about digital.
    Last edited by smacd; 06-05-2013 at 12:25 PM. Reason: annoyed by my own bad typing habits.

  11. #11
    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    Can't really blame the retail prices on Nintendo. The retailers set those, and they stay the same because most first-party Nintendo games simply continue to sell at full price for years after they're released. It's really a different market from the week-one-or-bust situation facing most games today. Nintendo games that don't sell as well do get price dropped. For example, Kirby's Epic Yarn apparently didn't have the evergreen sales that other Nintendo games do, and fell from $50 to $30 after a few months.

    The real test will come with the Wii U, I suspect. Does Nintendo have a system set up that allows third-parties to lower digital prices quickly and easily if they so desire? Will Nintendo be willing to lower its own digital prices when retail prices fall? We're watching you, Nintendo.

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  12. #12
    Nobody reads about the sales I post in the Cheap Games thread, do they?

    Regarding FUSE...

    This seems unfair. From what I've been told, the original "feel" of the game came entirely from early trailers, so any talk of how awesome it would have been is just speculation. You can't judge a design idea that never existed, so acting like we missed something grand is silly. Heck, knowing fanboys, they would have just said it was a poor man's Ratchet and Clank anyway.
    And I don't see why people think the game is bland. If you actually use the unique weapons and powers, it doesn't play like a ho-hum shooter at all.
    I've never played Ratchet and Clank though, so maybe I am just missing something.


    Regarding FF Versus...

    I've seen a bunch of people say it was just rolled into FF15.
    Last edited by TG Barighm; 06-05-2013 at 01:21 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TG Barighm View Post
    Nobody reads about the sales I post in the Cheap Games thread, do they?
    I read them and post there occasionally too. Although there are a ton of deals out there not covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by TG Barighm View Post
    Regarding FF Versus...

    I've seen a bunch of people say it was just rolled into FF15.
    I SERIOUSLY hope this isn't true. Versus is not a game I've been interested in at all based on the two trailers I've seen. Making that into "XV" will likely destroy the running trend that every 3rd game has been the best in the generation and among my favorite FFs. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy it, but it bears little resemblance to what I consider an FF title. Not that there haven't been others I don't consider true FF but were given numbers, but I'd be mighty disappointed in this case. Calling Versus "XV" will just be another notch in the series' issues in the last 15 years. Whatever XV is, if it isn't a series redeemer (which everyone claims Versus will be), it'll likely be the last FF I bother buying. I would prefer to have XV be a return to the series roots like IX was.

  14. #14
    Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff jcservant's Avatar
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    I read them Got some good deals from that thread.

    I'm not buying a console that requires frequent internet connection to validate my ownership. I already got that..it's called Steam, and it's not even that Draconian (I once had a laptop in offline mode for months...never had an issue there). Assuming that PS4 doesn't go that route, I may get one eventually if it has enough good RPG exclusive. Given the way the games are moving away from B rate games (You get AAA or small indy games), I can't see a lot of what I like (Solid, B-production RPGs) coming out.

  15. #15
    Although there are a ton of deals out there not covered.
    Oh, for sure, but a bunch of people above are talking about a lack of sales on XBL despite my posting the weekly sale. Not as good as Steam, but it does happen, although they've been getting a lot better.

    I SERIOUSLY hope this isn't true. Versus is not a game I've been interested in at all based on the two trailers I've seen. Making that into "XV" will likely destroy the running trend that every 3rd game has been the best in the generation and among my favorite FFs. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy it, but it bears little resemblance to what I consider an FF title. Not that there haven't been others I don't consider true FF but were given numbers, but I'd be mighty disappointed in this case. Calling Versus "XV" will just be another notch in the series' issues in the last 15 years. Whatever XV is, if it isn't a series redeemer (which everyone claims Versus will be), it'll likely be the last FF I bother buying. I would prefer to have XV be a return to the series roots like IX was.
    Well, they're just trailers. And the way they developed FF13, Versus can just be a bunch of assets they can string together however they like. Why not roll them into FF15? Or maybe Versus is just being renamed 15 (more likely).
    I did see a confirmation from Square saying whatever FF game is being based on Agni's Philosophy is being changed to a medieval setting, so maybe they were talking about Versus becoming FF15 and they're tossing Agni into it.

    Given the way the games are moving away from B rate games (You get AAA or small indy games), I can't see a lot of what I like (Solid, B-production RPGs) coming out.
    I take it you see a lot of games like that on the handhelds?

  16. #16
    I didn't learn anything! MasterChief's Avatar
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    Honestly, if gaming companies want to lock the product down like this, it's not like I can't find a new hobby. The problem with gaming isn't used games, it's that the industry spends well beyond its means and has done so for some time. Nearly every game nowadays has budgets along the lines of blockbuster movies, but 99% of them don't have nearly the reach of that. If Take Two's Strauss Zelnick is to be believed, it's going to get even more so. This is what will kill "core" gaming, not used games.

    And no, I will not look beyond the current disc-based landscape I inhabit. I like actually being able to KEEP games and not worry that they'll be lost if a corporation decides to douche out. However, looking at Steam, look at what has happened as a side effect - PC gaming outside of MMOs are invisible in the outside world. They're not promoted as much as console games, and while the market is certainly profitable for a few (most notably Valve), the platform is, and has always been a niche. There's just not that many people who are willing to put up with more and more and more barriers to enjoyment, certainly not compared to people who enjoy relatively easy hobbies such as movies, music and comics.

    The gaming industry has to stop looking for a bogeyman and start looking in the collective mirror. Budgets are too high compared to the size of the audience, and with each hardware generation they grow more and more prohibitive. I do have hope for the PS4, however, since they've already ruled out always-online and are apparently listening to user feedback regarding DRM possibilities. We have till E3 of course, but I'm hoping Sony has enough sense to pull back from the brink.

    In the end, bind-on-equip is going to make people a lot more conservative with their $60 ($70?) purchases, and that's going to make this industry's reach much, much smaller. After all, why would you buy a game that you'll be stuck with if it ends up like Aliens: Colonial Marines?

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  17. #17
    If Take Two's Strauss Zelnick is to be believed, it's going to get even more so. This is what will kill "core" gaming, not used games.
    I suspect we'll see a pricing crash, but that depends on how big the hardcore gaming population gets. It's not that big, but if it gets big enough, eventually nobody will pay full price for a game anymore because they will just wait for the Steam sale. Retailers won't buy games from publishers anymore if everyone is just gonna wait for the game to drop in price (note some retailers get wholesale discounts; I have no idea who and what, but I'll bet it's not less than $20 per game) unless they can get the game at a price below the expected sale price. THAT will kill blockbuster game budgets super quick.
    But again, that will only happen if a crapload of people suddenly develop spending discipline, and studies have shown the reverse is true: less and less people are properly managing their money.

    Ultimately just a variant on overpriced games, but still possible.
    Last edited by TG Barighm; 06-05-2013 at 08:30 PM.

  18. #18
    Veteran RPGamer watcher's Avatar
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    Cid, if you were primarily refering to console digital downloads, I was of the understanding that several major retailers banded together and threatened to not carry the physical product if digital copies were below hard copy MSRP because they were afraid, probably rightly so, that they wouldn't be able to sell games profitably. I will be surprised if one of the major console makers doesn't go digital only next gen to cut out middle men and offer lower prices to undercut their competition.

  19. #19
    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    FWIW there was no way for publishers to change prices of digital items on the DS and Wii. Rare exceptions may have been made for large companies. This policy has relaxed for the 3DS and WiiU but by no means is it gone.

    I think Sony's way of doing premium sales content (PS+) is pretty freaking ingenious. While it's unlikely I'll get an XOne, they'd be wise to examine the model.

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    As someone who has built a career around Microsoft's business technologies, I am so disappointed to see what is happening to this once great company. In the past I simply ignored or skipped over their mistakes (ME, Vista, PerformancePoint, etc...) but now they are hitting me at home.

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