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Thread: The Sum of Eight Consecutive Primes - Currents

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    RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff InstaTrent's Avatar
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    The Sum of Eight Consecutive Primes - Currents

    In this week's Currents, Nintendo does the same old thing, Sonic gets a makeover, Flappy Bird dies, the Vita prepares for swimsuit season, and EA continues to disappoint. We also have a few questions for you to answer.

    CURRENTS

    If I could ask you readers some questions this week, they would be:
    • Can the Nintendo Wii U recover at this point?
    • What made you purchase or avoid purchasing the Wii U? Has that situation changed at all?
    • Moving forward, what should Nintendo's hardware strategy be?
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    Member TheAnimeMan's Avatar
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    1. I honestly think it'll take a complete 180 to turn it around.

    2. Got one for Christmas hardly touch it right now.

    3. It wasa bold move and one that started with the DS, more interactivity between gamers and games. Also the premise between PS Move and Xbox Kinnect. Sadly that is not something all gamers want and the WiiU went to a completely different ****ed up level that crashed and burned
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    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    What Nguyen went through horrifies me, and I've seen some pretty ****ed up nonsense in my days as CM. People literally tweeted him pictures of themselves with guns in their mouths threatening to kill themselves when he announced it was being pulled down.

    Why, as a corporate entity, would EA continue to undertake such atrocious business practices knowing that critics are watching so closely?
    Because, and I realize how ironic this is coming from me, the enthusiast press often forgets the "informed" body of games is an excruciatingly tiny body of the gaming population. Garbage games like these may look aimed at gamers who treasured the original, but they're really aimed at casual players who don't consider themselves gamers. There still seems to be a lingering impression whales are hardcore or serious gamers; from my experience, they're almost never whales.

    If I could ask you readers some questions this week...
    I feel like the first question misses the mark. To me, the question I want answered is "Does it matter?" I bought a WiiU because I expected it to be just like the N64, GC, and Wii: the system that had a small handful of really awesome games. It would certainly be nice if I had a huge mass of WiiU games, but we've had a PS4 for since launch and only own 2 games for it -- we had 3, we traded one in. In comparison, we bought six games at the WiiU's launch, and we're up over a dozen now. It's all fine and dandy the PS4 is selling like gangbusters, but is anyone else noticing its lack of software?

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    Overdosing Heavenly Bliss Moderator ChickenGod's Avatar
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    Regarding the Wii U, I agree with Paws. None of the next gen systems have all that many games I'm interested in, but with the Xbone and PS4, the grand total for those systems is 0. The Wii U at least has a few decent titles that capture my interest already out or on the way, such as X, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Super Mario 3D World, and the new Smash Brothers. I haven't bought the system yet merely because I'm not a huge fan of Nintendo's previous consoles and felt that waiting until there was a sizable library was the correct way to go about things. As it stands now, I'm much, much closer to getting a Wii U than the PS4.

    Also, I'd caution against the Vita 2000 screen without seeing it for yourself. There are plenty of people I've seen who really can't tell the difference between playing a normal DS game on the DS vs the 3DS. Or a quality gaming monitor vs a standard $80 one. For me these kinds of differences are crucial, and I've been disappointed more than once in the past by taking other's word on these types of things.
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    Staff Healer RPGamer Staff TwinBahamut's Avatar
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    I'll also agree on the Wii U thing. Sure, it's sales are really quite bad, and third party support hasn't really been any different. But unlike the PS4 or Xbox One, it actually has games I want to play. More than that, it has games coming out in the future that I can look forward to. Really, the only big reason I have to get a PS4 right now is for Final Fantasy XIV, and getting a slightly prettier version of a game I can already play just fine simply isn't worth it. Yet, I really, really want to play Super Smash Bros. Wii U and X, and I've enjoyed the Wii U games I already own.

    The next console I'll get will probably be a Vita at this rate. It is actually getting games I'm interested in now. I'm still hoping for a vita TV release, though.

    As for Nintendo's hardware strategy... Expanding their dominance in the premium handheld gaming sector would probably be a good start. I'm of the opinion that, generally, the old set-up of multiple console makers releasing devices with equivalent specs and features is the model that's going to die out in the future. We'll still see consoles and other gaming devices released by multiple companies, but it will probably be more of matter of a single dominant force in any given niche. We'll see one major premium console, one major micro-console (a market that still needs to grow), one major dedicated gaming handheld, a dominant mobile platform, a dominant budget PC platform, and a dominant enthusiast PC platform. It used to be just console and PC, with one real winner in each, but these days the market has expanded to so many different fields competing more directly against each other. A company like Nintendo might be best off focusing on what it does best, while letting other companies fight over other platforms...

    Nintendo would probably be well-served by focusing on the handheld/microconsole market, since that has really been their biggest focus and strength so far. The problem for it so far is that, despite not creating a console powerful (and pricey) enough to match premium consoles like the PS4, the Wii U isn't well positioned as a micro-console like the Vita TV, and unlike with the Vita/Vita TV they can't share games between their two platforms. So, basically, Nintendo just needs to make hardware with which they can produce software that is equally playable on both a handheld and a home console. Fortunately, they've already acknowledged that point, which means they might find a good niche for themselves next time around. The fact that they claim they are looking to create entirely new platforms unlike anything else we have seen is also a good sign.

    But, well, I'm no expert, so my ramblings might very well just be ill informed nonsense. Can't help but talk about it a bit, though.

  6. #6
    1) I see no reason why the Wii U can't recover. It took a long time for the 3DS to take off. Despite its issues like a poorly chosen name, I think that the Wii U is fully capable of turning around when enough good games are out. That is the real problem right now.

    2) I have not purchased one because there aren't enough games I want. I have a 5-game rule, which usually helps me in that I rarely get systems before at least one or two price drops. I fully anticipate getting one eventually, I just don't need one now. I mean, I only just got a PS3 in the last 6 months.

    3) Hardware wise I think there is really only one issue, and that is the name. They would really be better off re-branding the Wii U with a more exciting, less confusing name, and doing a major marketing push. But before that marketing push, they really need to have more software. They need to entice third parties, they need to open the flood gates on the VC because the trickle only hurts them, and they need to put out NEW games from their major franchises like Metroid, Zelda, etc pronto. I reject the premise that Nintendo is failing with their hardware any more than they did with the Gamecube and N64, and I reject the hyperbole about giving up and going to mobile platforms or becoming a third party developer like Sega. There is absolutely still a place for Nintendo home consoles, they just need to have the software to support it and give people like me a reason to buy one today rather than waiting til Chistmas 2015.

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    Member lolwhoops's Avatar
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    I actually intend on getting a Wii U around X or Fire Emblem x SMT. There are games I want on it now, or that will be coming soon, but those are the two sellers for me. The next system i intend to get is the Vita, since handheld consoles have really taken my fancy over the last few years. You know what would make me extremely happy? Nintendo Wii U/3DS cross play/buy/save, especially for the virtual console. I would love to be able to get SNES and GBA games, on top the GCN and N64 on a Wii U and 3DS. I can't imagine it would be hard to do with Nintendo's new online ID system. Basically, to me, any way they can up play or include a 3DS in their Wii U plans would increase my interest. The Super Smash Brothers game on Wii U/3DS could be an indication that they know this already, and I'm really hoping to see more of it.
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    Angel-Possessed Priestess Administrator Strawberry Eggs's Avatar
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    I think the Wii U will be fine once the games people are really looking forward to come out (Smash Bros, X). It probably won't sell any better than the GameCube, if that, but it won't make Nintendo go third-party or leave the home console market and only do handhelds or something drastic like that. The console will likely have a shorter lifespan than its predecessor, though.

    I haven't gotten one yet since not only weren't there many games I wanted for it, but also I am so very behind on console games released last generation. I do plan on getting one once I get my tax return money. I still have some three or four unplayed games left, but there are a fair number of games out for Wii U I would like (I already own Pikmin 3, there's Super Mario 3D World, the Wonderful 101, and The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD) and there are others I am looking forward to.
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    The Gratitude Pokemon Shaymin's Avatar
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    Can the Nintendo Wii U recover at this point?
    Add me to the "What does it mean to recover" pile. It's not going to do Wii numbers - but nothing in this generation will. At this rate, they'll try to push it to somewhere between N64 and Gamecube so it's not a total failure.

    What made you purchase or avoid purchasing the Wii U? Has that situation changed at all?
    I bought it at E3 because I figured there'd be some incentive for buying it before a price drop that I thought would be announced at E3. That turned out to be an incorrect assumption, but the combo of Runner 2 and playing the 3D world demo made me keep it long enough for Earthbound to come out. Now I'm never getting rid of it.

    Moving forward, what should Nintendo's hardware strategy be?
    Make sure there's a reason to own handheld and console, get cracking on a WiiU system-on-a-chip so you can maintain backwards compatibility next generation if you feel the need to appeal to the Western 3rd party cartel, and keep it inexpensive. Or, just wait for Sony to go bankrupt and Microsoft shareholders to turf that business and win by default, whatever.
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  10. #10
    As much as i hate to admit it because i hate the series, the Wii U only really needs one game to be saved. It needs a Pokemon game or it will continue to fail. Zelda can also help and Mario Kart will help us see just how bad of shape it really is if it doesnt sell well.

    To be fair I could care less Because All I need is X, It is the only reason i have a Wii U and honestly its the only game that matters IMO

  11. #11
    I didn't learn anything! MasterChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InstaTrent View Post
    In this week's Currents, Nintendo does the same old thing, Sonic gets a makeover, Flappy Bird dies, the Vita prepares for swimsuit season, and EA continues to disappoint. We also have a few questions for you to answer.

    CURRENTS

    If I could ask you readers some questions this week, they would be:
    • Can the Nintendo Wii U recover at this point?
    • What made you purchase or avoid purchasing the Wii U? Has that situation changed at all?
    • Moving forward, what should Nintendo's hardware strategy be?
    1. Not this generation. That ship is sailed. A full year's head start has been completely erased in the sales charts, and at this point 3rd parties are focused on the PS4 and Xbone. Nintendo hasn't shown the capacity to appeal to anyone other than their diehards, and with Iwata at the helm, I don't see anything changing. That said, they can get a more respectable showing by increasing the game output. Seriously, releases on that system are at a damned glacial pace, and that's Nintendo's worst problem.

    2. My purchase decision was around a pair of circumstances. I expected DK and Bayo2 later in 2013, and was afraid that the Wii U would be the only console without draconian DRM (I bought mine in April 2013, well before E3). I also thought that, with the non-gamer market having largely left for mobile, Nintendo would actually make more games that I enjoyed. Seems instead that Nintendo continues to try and make the Wii U into the next Wii, not realizing that lightning's a pain to put in a bottle twice. Needless to say, with nothing on the horizon this year outside of DK and Mario Kart 8, I'm not feeling the love.

    3. Outside of not putting in stupid controllers, I don't think the problem is a hardware one. It's purely software. Outside of rolling aces with Wii Sports, Nintendo is a very conservative company with regards to software. It always amazed me how Nintendo was willing to make their systems completely unpalatable for 3rd parties by making strange controllers, then turn around and put out largely the same kinds of games they've been doing since the N64. If they channeled that creativity into their software instead, we might not be having this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paws
    Because, and I realize how ironic this is coming from me, the enthusiast press often forgets the "informed" body of games is an excruciatingly tiny body of the gaming population. Garbage games like these may look aimed at gamers who treasured the original, but they're really aimed at casual players who don't consider themselves gamers. There still seems to be a lingering impression whales are hardcore or serious gamers; from my experience, they're almost never whales.
    Well it's no secret anymore that mobile gaming is meant to be a skinner box to attract people with addictive personalities and bleed them out of as much money as possible, the question remains "why call it Dungeon Keeper?" The name has no cache at all with the casuals you're talking about, so what purpose does using that name serve other than to troll people who've been wanting a new Dungeon Keeper game for so many years?

    EA wouldn't be getting as much crap as they are if they just thought of a new name for the bloody thing.

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    That Guy You Hate RPGamer Staff omegabyte's Avatar
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    I'm with Paws, I think the Wii U is gonna end up falling in line with the N64 and the GameCube in the end. Not a ton of games, but a bunch of great ones. Heck, the Wii was pretty much the same way, despite it selling like gangbusters to the casual market.

    Comparing it to the Virtual Boy is a bit of an overkill. I mean, hell, the Wii U had more games AT LAUNCH than the Virtual Boy had in its entire time on market.
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    Member Cidolfas's Avatar
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    To be honest, none of the new-gen consoles appeal to me right now. I might pick up a Wii U, but only because it plays Wii games, and I haven't got a Wii. (Then again, maybe I should go for a cheap-as-dirt Wii since it plays GameCube games.)

    What I don't understand is why Nintendo is releasing GBA games for the Virtual Console but not the eShop. Old-skool Game Boy and NES games are painful to play; the GBA is closer to the SNES in graphics and capability, and there's probably a dozen games I would not think twice about purchasing on the eShop. Frankly I never understood why they even offer these old-school games on consoles meant to be played with giant HD monitors. They look so much better on a small screen.

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    BEARSONA Administrator Paws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterChief View Post
    at mobile gaming is meant to be a skinner box to attract people with addictive personalities and bleed them out of as much money as possible, the question remains "why call it Dungeon Keeper?" The name has no cache at all with the casuals you're talking about, so what purpose does using that name serve other than to troll people who've been wanting a new Dungeon Keeper game for so many years?

    EA wouldn't be getting as much crap as they are if they just thought of a new name for the bloody thing.
    Why would they use it? Because they can. Because they know it'll make press and draw in the non-casual people they couldn't normally target. Because it means they don't need to think up another name -- and in the busy mobile market, that's a huge thing.

    EA would absolutely get as much crap for the game if it was named Jupiter Stars. The game sucks and they're filtering non-5 star reviews off the Google Play store.

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    Member flamethrower's Avatar
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    They might sell more if it was named Jupiter Stars. I think more hardcore gamers know Dungeon Keeper Mobile sucks than casual players. I think the name Dungeon Keeper Mobile appeals to hardcore gamers more than casual players.
    If they channeled that creativity into their software instead, we might not be having this conversation.
    No, their games are creative enough. Really. Well, maybe except for Wind Waker HD (it's improved, but really kind of samey). The Mario game was praised for being rather original. The main problem is the slow pace of releases and lack of third party support.
    Last edited by flamethrower; 02-21-2014 at 07:54 AM.

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    Veteran RPGamer watcher's Avatar
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    While I don't think the Wii U will completely fail, it certainly won't register as solidly successful. I think the only chance Nintendo has at this point if they want to one-up Sony and MS is to put out a new, superior console in the middle of the development cycle of the other two.

    Wii U, like the other new consoles, lacks in the way of game library. Wii U, however, has the least 3rd party support we've seen for a console in years. Even with multiplatform games, it is being passed over. It will quickly fall behind the other two in game library, sealing its fate as the least successful console of this generation. All signs point to the PS4 repeating the dominance of the PS2 from where I sit.

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    is not declawed RPGamer Staff Ocelot's Avatar
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    Nah, the PS4 isn't going to get that far ahead of the Xbone, although globally I suspect it'll keep a fairly commanding lead. The PS2 generation was a slaughter the likes of which we probably won't see again anytime soon.

    Nintendo is pretty much stuck with the Wii U for a while. It can't afford to tee off its hardcore fanbase by replacing the Wii U too soon. That fanbase is pretty much what Ninty has left currently, although the current corporate strategy hopes to get back at least some of the ultra-casual Wii fanbase with associated "lifestyle" peripherals and more games that heavily use the GamePad.

    I own a Wii U beause I'm part of that Nintendo fanbase, and I've greatly enjoyed the games I've played on it so far. No regrets, because it's a solid secondary box for playing Nintendo games, and I have a PS4 for the big third-party releases and JRPGs.

    I have no idea what Nintendo's hardware strategy should be moving forward, other than switching over to a similar architecture to the other consoles so third-party dev is as easy as possible. I like the idea of a combination home/portable device that people have suggested, but in the end, this generation is a reminder that Nintendo should lead (the Wii motion controls) instead of follow (hey, tablets are popular, let's make a tablet controller).

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    Member Aurian's Avatar
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    My problem with the Nintendo console systems seems to be a lack of third party support. If you aren't squee for various Super Mario, Pokemon or Donkey Kong stuff, then that limits your choices on the system. The handhelds have PLENTY of third party support so there is a steady infusion of interesting games for it, but I am not seeing it for the Wii-U.

    I was disappointed by the Wii - I only have 6 games for it that I deemed keepers and that is just one above my usual "must have 5 games I want before buying console" rule. Wii-U only has ONE game that is "must buy" for me and its not even out yet! (X)

    So limited games, limited casual appeal (since it doesn't seem to make people crazy for it like the Wii-waggle did), and limited "hardcore gamer" appeal (whose who gush over tech specs). I think Nintendo needs to find a way to get a broad spectrum of games that appeal to more types of players - right now its not really shaking off the "kiddie console" feeling.

  19. #19
    I didn't learn anything! MasterChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
    Nah, the PS4 isn't going to get that far ahead of the Xbone, although globally I suspect it'll keep a fairly commanding lead. The PS2 generation was a slaughter the likes of which we probably won't see again anytime soon.
    Yeah, the PS2 was a special console, the right machine at the right time. Sega was bowing out, Nintendo was settling into the rut they're currently in, and the Xbox really only had Halo. The stars don't align like this very often.

    Nintendo is pretty much stuck with the Wii U for a while. It can't afford to tee off its hardcore fanbase by replacing the Wii U too soon. That fanbase is pretty much what Ninty has left currently, although the current corporate strategy hopes to get back at least some of the ultra-casual Wii fanbase with associated "lifestyle" peripherals and more games that heavily use the GamePad.
    Considering how much people stay engaged with fitness equipment on average, Nintendo dips back into that fad at their own peril. Wii Fit U hasn't exactly been moving units either. You are right, however, that Nintendo needs to stay the course. The reason Sega failed in the hardware business is that they lost consumer trust with a lack of support, and the premature discontinuation, of the Sega CD, 32X and Sega Saturn. Nintendo was able to quietly shelve Virtual Boy because they still had the juggernaut SNES around. Shelving the primary home console before even three years is out of the question, because if the next console has a rocky start, people will wonder if Nintendo'll pull support for it as well.

    I own a Wii U beause I'm part of that Nintendo fanbase, and I've greatly enjoyed the games I've played on it so far. No regrets, because it's a solid secondary box for playing Nintendo games, and I have a PS4 for the big third-party releases and JRPGs.
    That is at once their greatest strength and weakness. They keep a loyal, almost fanatical fanbase, but at the same time they've not learned how to bring in new people the way Disney has. For Nintendo to survive into the future as its existing base grows older, they need to learn to balance the nostalgia mining with new and interesting titles to bring in the detractors.

    I have no idea what Nintendo's hardware strategy should be moving forward, other than switching over to a similar architecture to the other consoles so third-party dev is as easy as possible. I like the idea of a combination home/portable device that people have suggested, but in the end, this generation is a reminder that Nintendo should lead (the Wii motion controls) instead of follow (hey, tablets are popular, let's make a tablet controller).
    To be fair, it's hard to come up with something completely new and be successful. The Wii is their greatest success in the hardware realm, no doubt, but then you look at the Virtual Boy and... Yeah, it's easy to see why they shouldn't do that with every system...

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  20. #20
    Veteran RPGamer watcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
    Nintendo is pretty much stuck with the Wii U for a while.
    Yeah, that's why I said in the middle of the development cycle of the other two. Say two or three years from now. If they made something a half-step up from a PS4 at that time, it could be relatively cheap and made easy to port to such that they could have a massive wave of third party launch titles, even if they're mostly older games already available for the other two. I see it as a tactical option to have the power to draw back in the hardcore gamers and third party support. It would be a good time to radically improve their online system in tandem.

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